Vanadium and natural stones

Dear KKF's, I am new to J nats ( thanks Badger ) and I have a question that i am hoping you can all help me with, the question is can J nats be utilised to put a good edge on knives with high Vanadium content such as A2, and numerous PM steels certainly Devins mystery carbon springs to mind?
I have found through experience that diamond works best on these steels, I have tried sharpening these steels on Choseras, and most especially the A2 just tends to glide across the top of the stone even on lower grits and you really get nowhere, numerous knife makers have told me that I am delirious trying to sharpen these types of steels on anything but diamond?
I have just spent a fortune on different natural stones and am hopeful that they will be multi purpose so any feedback and advice would be greatly appreciated
David

No experience with A2, but my Chosera and J Nats are just fine for PM steels like SRS15 and R2.

I should collect more experience with natural knives soon, but my first guess is that they are not the best for steel with high resistance to wear - and A2 definitely belongs in that category.

Matus said:

I should collect more experience with natural knives soon, but my first guess is that they are not the best for steel with high resistance to wear - and A2 definitely belongs in that category.

Click to expand...

Thanks Matus, that is what I also believe, for steels with high Vanadium content I think diamond is ideal, just wanted to check, my experience tells me that A2 is very difficult to remove steel from with anything apart from diamond.
Have you any experience with any of the other traditionally used US steels such as CPM, AEBL, W1, W2, 52100 etc?

hiho!
i had to sharpen 2 knifes from my mom last week.
one old Global wich is some Vanadium Steel and a standard Solingen Vanadium generic Zwilling/Henkels.
even with my jns1000 it was no fun but on my Aizu it was hell. It is no fun.

Steel that works awesome with jnats is AEB-L (i have 59,61,63 HRC knifes), any Aogami(+Super) or Shirogami, Sc125, Old Solingen Carbon or other pure steel like that.
With lots of knifes from Zoze with US steels (that are unknown to me) it was harder for me.
On my normal Ohira Suita there was a difference if you compared 2 different steels (less black swarf and took more time)

i didnt have much time to test my stones but since Christmas is coming ill have tons of free time.

Seeya daniel

On top of these I will soon test how Niolox works on natural stones

I don't know about with naturals with A2 but I have never had a need to take it to diamonds as it does just fine on my Chosera and Shapton stones. As for other American tool and spring steels they seem to do fine with regular stones rather than diamonds as well such as O1, 52100, 5160 and even D2. My experience with these steels in with mid-softer outdoor knives, though.

The only steels that I have experience with on naturals are as follows (and they seem to do fine):

10xx series
SK
White
Blue
AS
Ginsan
VG series (1/5/10)
Aus-8/10
12c27
19c27
AEB-L

That said, I am new to natural stones and have only had them for less than a year and imo some of these steels do not benefit going beyond a naka-to stone but to each their own. My Omura and Monzento seem to be a good one two punch for cheaper softer stainless and carbon butcher knives such as Old Hickory and Victorinox.

Having said that, as I said I am new and only have experience with a handful of stones. Omura (JNS), Tajima (Shin), Monzento (JKI), Aoto (MM), Yaginoshima (JNS).

I can tell you that A2 is a ***** to sharpen on coticules. The garnet crystals in coticules don't break down like the abrasive particles in jnats do which would suggest it's even harder to sharpen A2 on a jnat. If you want 2 good stones for A2 I can tell you from experience the Sigma Select II 1200 and 6000 do a great job. The Select II stones are specifically designed for very hard, high alloy steels. I've even sharpened HSS router bits with them and that stuff leaves A2 in the dust when it comes to hardness.

PalmRoyale said:

I can tell you that A2 is a ***** to sharpen on coticules. The garnet crystals in coticules don't break down like the abrasive particles in jnats do which would suggest it's even harder to sharpen A2 on a jnat. If you want 2 good stones for A2 I can tell you from experience the Sigma Select II 1200 and 6000 do a great job. The Select II stones are specifically designed for very hard, high alloy steels. I've even sharpened HSS router bits with them and that stuff leaves A2 in the dust when it comes to hardness.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info

Well, for what is worth I found sharpening A2 or D2 on JNS300, Gesshin 2000 and Gesshin 6000 no particular problem. Not quite as fast as white #1, but not a particular problem either.

Btw, A2 is not a good choice for knives. It fractures very easily at lower angels. You need at least a 30 degree angle, preferably even higher.

PalmRoyale said:

Btw, A2 is not a good choice for knives. It fractures very easily at lower angels. You need at least a 30 degree angle, preferably even higher.

Click to expand...

That's not true at all

PalmRoyale said:

Btw, A2 is not a good choice for knives. It fractures very easily at lower angels. You need at least a 30 degree angle, preferably even higher.

Click to expand...

Even a guy with as little experience with knives as me disagrees - based on experience. Have you ever used something like Yoshikane SKD knives? A2 (the usual caveat applies - HT must suit the purpose) is actually excellent for knifemaking.

I've only used A2 plane blades and chisels and it's true for those. I assumed it would be the same for knives.

I can not really say much here as I have 0 experience with planes and chisels - very different edge geometry and very different use, but properly HT A2 is very tough and can stand quite some abuse. But it is not the steel with too fine grain, so I would naively think that is it not the best choice for chisels or planes.

You atre correct. when used for a plane or chisel the carbides break away from the edge rather easily.

Abrasion resistant steels and natural stones can be a bad match, especially if the steel contains large carbides. Silicate is softer than aluminum oxide, so progress in sharpening is slow. For general knife sharpening with A2 (or chisels or plane blades) a Bester 1200 will give what I consider the best compromise between wear rate and sharpening speed, but if sharpening quickly regardless of wear rate of the stone is more important, the faster Sigmas are probably better. Natural stones wouldn't be my preference, far too slow.

Peter

What about using only a very fine natural stone as the last step?

I'd be tempted to try a glass-hard razor type Jnat as a final strop but I'd think you'd have a long hard time of it trying to actually sharpen very hard steel on a Jnat, you'd go too hard and facet the edge and maybe undo some of the good work you'd done one on a sigma or sintered diamond stone.

the whole point of natural stones is the superior feedback. so it would make sense to use knives with steels that are also have superior feedback. not contradict its strengths by trying to sharpen crappy feeling steels...