Help buying first high quality Knife (set) -- Up to ~$1,000 for 1-2 Knives

Howdy All!

I've been home cooking for decades (lots of cajun/creole/french) and have finally decided to upgrade from my Cutco knife set. Would love help selecting my first 1 or 2 quality knives to meet my typical needs. I look forward to hearing everyone's valuable input! So away we go! :running:

LOCATION
USA



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Chef's Knife/Gyuto and possibly one more

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
I don't rightly know, I've never used a Japanese handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
I'm assuming a 240mm for the ideal pinch grip? I'd like to up my knife skill game here.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Yes? Something that can be reasonably easy to maintain.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
~$1,000...Money isn't really as important as something I'll love and use. I learned a long time ago that if you have the ability, a quality purchase is a much better investment in time, money and quailty of life. That being said, I don't have to spend that much if diminishing returns are insignificant.



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
In order of use:
1. Chopping Veggies (Onions and the like)
2. Finer cuts with herbs, garlic and shallots
3. Cutting dense veggies (like sweet potato fries, butternut squash, and the occassional spaghetti squash...though I could use the Cutco for that last one)
4. Slicing meat like chicken and skirt steak for stir fries

I don't break down anything with bones, but will do the occasional chuck roast for stews.


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
A Cutco set with a Chef's knife and Santoku, utility and pairing knives. I could never really get the love affair with the Santoku, though I'm willing to assume it may be the quality of blade I've used.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Hammer but want to develop a good pinch grip technique

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Rock and slice, but really really want to get skilled with push (chop)

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Better balance, sharpness, thinner
(I want something that will make quick work of onions, bell peppers via chopping...moving through them like butter. I'd like something that won't require me to fight sweet potatoes. This can be 2 different knives.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Function over form...that being said a beautiful wooden handle with good ergonomics would be a nice bonus

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Definitly better balance, would like something that feels like a natural extension of my arm. Not as concerned about weight, but want it to be fun to use...something where I look for excuses to make salsa, a quick stir fry or pan sauce.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Better push cutting and food release. I don't have reactivity issues with the cutco, but have seen other knives that do. I cut up a wide variety of veggies, so less general reactivity is probably a good idea.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Difficult for me to answer. Maybe sharpen once a month? I work out of town during the week and am only home 3 days/week.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
I have synthetic, but am happy to get an end-grain board. Suggestions welcome.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, on an electric 130

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes, would love to learn to use sharpening stones

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

Hi Griffinco.

1000 USD will get you a lot of knife. I think you would be able to find a knife for 100 USD which will significantly outperform what you have. But even a $1000 USD will be useless if it's not sharp. I would advise against sharpening high quality knives on anything other that waterstones unless you really know what you are doing (watch the JKI youtube sharpening series it's actually not that hard to learn). I'm not saying don't spend $1000 but be aware that a sharp $100 knife is much better than a blunt $1000 knife.

It may be best to buy a knife to learn to sharpen on before you buy a really nice knife. And you will buy more knives (this is known as the "rabbit hole").

A 240 gyuto is probably a good choice for learning pinch grip cutting techniques. It's important to distinguish between a thin (Laser) blade and one which is thin only behind the edge. A laser will behave somewhat sharper but will punish poor technique as it will twist along the length of the blade. Lasers also usually have poor food release, which I find a little annoying. You may not. In my opinion, a laser is probably not the best choice for a first high quality knife. Something thin behind the edge, however....

If I lived in USA, I'd have a chat with Jon Brioda at JKI (In LA). He is renowned for finding a knife to match your needs. His sharpening stones are meant to be pretty good too. I'm guessing $2-300 for a 2 stone setup (including a a flattening stone). I've never bought from Jon (unfortunately, postage from US to Aus is pretty hefty for some reason), but he gets a lot of respect in the knife world. Ask him to sharpen the knife for you (most quality Japanese knives don't come from the factory with the best possible edge).

I've bought a number of knives and stones from James at (funnily enough) Knives & Stones here in Aus. He has some great knives, often with improved handles & fit/finish (the "K&S" treatment) at great prices. Service is great. Postage to US is not too high, I believe.

Get a good end-grain board. They are awesome. Mine is made of locally made from Australian hardwood but there are apparently some pretty good options in the US.

Since you're in the USA you have your choice of vendors… I'm in Canada and I don't hesitate to get in touch with Jon Broida at Japanese Knife Imports (JKI) https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com when I need some work done to my knives. JKI a KKF vendor and will not try to oversell you things you don't need.

$1k is a lot of money for two knives, especially if you're mentioning the electric sharpener. You'll definitely want to get some stones for the league of knives you're looking at.

All this said, your budget could easily get you a couple stainless knives (if you have an aversion to carbon or require low / worry free maintenance) such as a powder metallurgy (PM) steel with higher HRC and edge retention, as well as a couple sharpening stones (& flattening plate) with some money left over for a cutting board.

If I were looking for just two knives, I'd get a 240 gyuto and a petty (like a big paring or utility knife) in the 130-150 range. I'd check out the Gesshin Kagero for stainless knives if looking at JKI (I have a similar style and size of knives and love them). I don't even think that'd be half of your budget and JKI could also help you with sharpening supplies too.

All the best with your search

tjangula said:

Since you're in the USA you have your choice of vendors… I'm in Canada and I don't hesitate to get in touch with Jon Broida at Japanese Knife Imports (JKI) https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com when I need some work done to my knives. JKI a KKF vendor and will not try to oversell you things you don't need.

$1k is a lot of money for two knives, especially if you're mentioning the electric sharpener. You'll definitely want to get some stones for the league of knives you're looking at.

All this said, your budget could easily get you a couple stainless knives (if you have an aversion to carbon or require low / worry free maintenance) such as a powder metallurgy (PM) steel with higher HRC and edge retention, as well as a couple sharpening stones (& flattening plate) with some money left over for a cutting board.

If I were looking for just two knives, I'd get a 240 gyuto and a petty (like a big paring or utility knife) in the 130-150 range. I'd check out the Gesshin Kagero for stainless knives if looking at JKI (I have a similar style and size of knives and love them). I don't even think that'd be half of your budget and JKI could also help you with sharpening supplies too.

All the best with your search

Click to expand...

I have 210 gyuto and 150 petty from Akifusa, which I think is very similar to Gesshin Kagero. It's a high tech PM steel, fully stain resistant, hard and fairly fine grained. a little harder to sharpen than carbon, but these are so thin behind the edge that it's really not an issue. The gyuto was my first Japanese knife and it blew me away.

I also really like my Shiro Kamo Syousin Suminagashi that I got from James at K&S. The Ryusen Blazen and Takamura Pro or Hana are worth looking at.

Nemo said:

I have 210 gyuto and 150 petty from Akifusa, which I think is very similar to Gesshin Kagero. It's a high tech PM steel, fully stain resistant, hard and rightly fine grained. a little harder to sharpen than carbon, but these are so thin behind the edge that it's really not an issue. The gyuto was my first Japanese knife and it blew me away.

I also really like my Shiro Kamo Syousin Suminagashi that I got from James at K&S. The Ryusen Blazen and Takamura Pro or Hana are worth looking at.

Click to expand...

I have a pair of Geshin Kagero (Guy to and Petty) and are among my favorite knives. I recommend them without hesitations or reservations whatsoever

I'll second the Kagero knives from jki. Spectacular edge retention. Not sure what's in stock but I think you can get western or Japanese handled gyuto. Don't know about the pettys though.

If you want to go top end stainless, get an AEB-L XH Cris Anderson approx $800. It's a heavier style knife more similar to German style weight and height but still in keeping with Japanese profiles. Only have it professionally sharpened. 210mm is good for home use.

I would also get a cheaper lazer thin Konosuke HD2 both to enjoy an ultra thin profile and to learn sharpening on. These are one of the benchmark stainless laser thin knives. 240mm is likely best as they are soooooo light they feel like a 210. The lazer thin knife will also give better feedback on good and bad knife technique as it will change direction in product easily if your technique is wrong.

Buy some stones like a cheap King deluxe 1200 to get started on sharpening and go from there.

I would buy the konosuke hd2 240mm and sharpening stones first. The konosuke is good enough to last you years without needing to upgrade, it is that good. You can then decide to go high end after. Also JKI can sort out a similar knife and good stones. Ideally visit them and handle the knives if you can.

Just some ideas!

I also have a Gesshin Kagero and think it would be a great intro, or maybe a Kochi, or maybe a???

The point of diminishing $$ is somewhere around the $300 imo. I would suggest speaking with Jon and coming up with a nice package...a couple of waterstones and maybe even a couple of knives...you'll also want something to level your stones...for less than $1000 you'll have some high end mind blowing ****.

Oh and this is the free stuff from Jon that you can start watching to get up to speed on sharpening as well as some videos that go over a few of his knife brands

Thanks for everyone's input so far. I've reached out to Jon. Sounds like I may be able to get some rockstar knives along with sharpening stones and an end-grain board from the Boardsmith. I'll keep you posted with my thoughts. In the meantime, feel free to suggest anything else that comes to mind. I'll post here before I decide and then add pics of the built set I end up starting with. This is gonna be fun. :biggrin:

A nice end grain cutting block is great, they feel different from edge grain or plastic to me and will be kinder to your knife edge. I do use a plastic board for raw meat, though some people will use one of those plastic liners temporarily placed on top of their nice wood board instead.

Definitely get waterstones for sharpening over any kind of electric sharpener. You have control over setting the bevel angle and shape on a stone versus no choice on a pull through electric sharpener. And sometimes you only need a quick touch up on a stone instead of grinding away a lot of metal like an electric would.

Only other advice I would offer is to ask Jon to put an initial sharpening on the knives for you.

I'd get a $160-$250 Gyuto (Takamura, Goko, Itinomonn, Kamo, whatever) or Santoku (Kamo, Masakage, Azai/EUH, whatever), and put the rest of the budget away safe to either buy a few extra shapes I like in the future, or save it up for a Honyaki

Honyaki would be a great choice, but not sure if there is a stainless or semi stainless version... If carbon was one the table fore sure!

I don't think honyaki is a good recommendation for a first time sharpener.

+1!

That is why I said "save it up for it" Btw, the kind of honyaki that is worth $600+ generally doesn't come in stainless

LifeByA1000Cuts said:

That is why I said "save it up for it" Btw, the kind of honyaki that is worth $600+ generally doesn't come in stainless

Click to expand...

Hopefully not too far off topic but are there any true stainless honyakis?

I guess you take a Honyaki and make sure it doesn't get stained, or polish it until the stains are gone But yeah, if anyone heard of stainless steel in a diff-quenched style, it would be interesting to hear...

Hiho!

since you now use "Yes, on an electric 130" for grinding i think since you dondt have so much experience with sharpening starting with some super high grade honyaki would be like drivin a rolls royce in a destruction derby 3000..
i completly ****** and wrecked my shiro kamo-to aogami2 kinfes to hell because i thought "hey freehand sharpening cant be so hard if i never tried it before"

well you can try .. since ther is no knife that never gets dull its an issue and you should also consider that the most beautiful finish is completly fcked after the first try

As I said, I meant "if you have a lot of money to spend on knives, consider getting something super high grade LATER not now..."

So what did you do to the kamos, except maybe wrecking the finish, getting them thick behind the edge by oversharpening, or in the very worst case getting a recurve in? And how much did you learn from fixing the mistakes?

Lol, i wrecked my Eden/kamo blue by chipping the hell out of it at first. Not too dissatisfied with my restoration job on the stone cutting wise though. ***** is once you have to thin for the first time you wreck the finish. Upside to carbon: half a year later you dont see much of the mess anymore under all the stains and it still cuts awesome.

Merry Christmas All!

I wanted to follow up with my purchases. After speaking with Jon I ended up with:

- 210 Gesshin Ginga Gyuto

And I have to say, holy crap! What the hell have I been using all my life to cut stuff up? It's an awesome knife, light weight, nimble and super sharp. I now understand why you call it a "laser". Jon also recommended I use it for a while and then determine my next purchase based on likes and needs from this one.

I also ordered a Walnut board from the Boardsmith and asked for 1000/6000 Gesshin stone and diamond flattening plate for Christmas. I'll practice on my German knives before attempting to sharpen the Ginga.

Thanks to everyone for your input and pointing me in Jon's direction. Big thanks to Jon for taking the time with me and setting me on a great starting point for Japanese knivery.

Jamie

This is too funny. A few months back, I was pretty much where you're at. What did I do? I bought a Gesshin Ginga Gyuto, a 1000/6000 Gesshin combo stone, and a diamond flattening plate. Oh, and I ordered a Walnut board from Boardsmith. I went "Oh, Dang, Dang, Dang!!!!!!!" when I first cut with the Ginga and that's been pretty much all she wrote. A compulsion has germinated.

We gotta be related, right?

You, Sir, have excellent taste! Crazy. Happy to hear you like it so much. That bodes well for me. I'm totally tickled with everything.

Got a few questions for you:

1. How has the learning curve been for stone sharpening?

2. Anything you're looking to add to your collection after a few months or does the gyuto cover most of your needs now?

Cheers!
J

Nice first J-knife purchase! And well under the original budget
You might need something coarser than 1k on your existing German knives, especially if they are thick behind the edge. You can definitely still practice generating a burr and deburring on it, but almost definitely at a far higher angle than you will use for a Ginga - it will take the 1k stone a long time to set a more acute angle than what the German knife likely already has.

Kind of embarrassing regarding the sharpening. I've bought a few new knives and, so far, haven't the slightest need to sharpen as I spread out usage. I've watched tons of videos and have it all planned out for when I do, from which old beater knives lying around to practice on first to which steels I might try to work with first. I've watched tons of videos though and look forward, if not somewhat intimidated, to learning the skill.

As far as your second question, I had just bought the Miyabi Birchwood, prior to coming aboard here. That's fine, but the truer Japanese knives put a smile on my face when using them. I've bought several. My favorite gyutos since my Gesshin have been a Watanabe, a knife referred to as Deep Impact, and my favorite, a Wakui. Last night, my wife opened one of her presents, a Misono santoku, which wouldn't have been my choice, but suits her perfectly. And, guess what, she appreciated it so much that she started pushing me toward another gyuto, a Gesshin Gengetsu, when they come available. At that point, I'll probably be done purchasing for a while.

I told her that I'd make up all the costs by preparing more meals at home. I'm a good, but reluctant, cook.

griffinco said:

How has the learning curve been for stone sharpening?

Click to expand...

I found it much less difficult than anticipated. Watch Jon's videos a couple of times. Then watch them again every few times you sharpen for the first few times- you'll keep picking stuff up. For me, the main hurdle was actually working up the courage to start. Get some stones and get sharpening. If you are really worried, practice on old knives first. Or buy ca cheapish carbon knife to practice on.

Thanks for the encouragement, Nemo. I love Jon's videos as well and I've bookmarked a ton more that will be helpful. I'm pretty confident. I just have to be patient, like I am with cutting up veggies, and kind of get my muscle memory going. Somethings, like how much pressure to exert to raise that burr, will have to be learned by doing, but, even there, I've researched the issue to get an idea of how much weight to apply. And, for sure, I'll start on at least one practice knife.

hiho!
"210 Gesshin Ginga Gyuto" is a great choice that make you go "wow"
i got 5 Ashi Gingas directly from Ashi and i love them!

Its not what you can get for the maximum amount of Money, but "whats actually good for your needs" and +1 for Jon for that consulting!

Nice about the Gingas is how easy you can sharpen them and none would ever need to make them thinner! Mitsuaki from Ashi did a great Job with the Geometrie of those knifes!
So it will be the start of a nice knife addiction !

i would leave your Solingen Germans on a workhorse level.. you should be able to switch between a Laser Ginga and a Crowbar for odd jobs !

With the Ashi Gingas it was a 210mm first and then 120,150 and a 210Petty.. the 120 is still my favorite knife for Dinner and the 150 is a very agile paring and Petty knife.
Of course you can look for other steels and knife lines with different concepts. but i first went full Ginga berserk and dondt regret it (well i got around 40 knifes so in never regret anything )

And sharpening was a learning curve that is just getting better but still after 2 years i always lern new stuff and thats good!

Thanks all, the encouragement helps for getting into sharpening. I can learn new knife skills pretty quickly but the idea of sharpening is a little more daunting...simply because I've never done anything like it before. And the ginga definitely has me thinking up excuses to cook.