Hi

Hi, I'm new but have learnt a lot having a read through the forum

I'm looking to buy my first good knife. I'm a rubbish cook but am starting a healthy diet soon so will be cooking a lot of fresh veg etc from scratch. I thought it would be nice to have a nice knife to make the preparation a bit easier and fun!





LOCATION
U.K.



KNIFE TYPE
Advice seems to be a ~8" chefs knife for 90% of tasks but ideally I'd get a small pairing knife too.

Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Unsure, western I think.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
8" I think, ideally a small pairing knife too.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Unsure.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
£200 ideally, £300 absolute max. Was hoping to get a chefs knife, pairing knife, cutting block, magnetic holder and sharpening stones for that... I know I'm asking a lot! I now plan to make a board and holder.



KNIFE USE
Basic home use. Chopping and slicing meat and veg.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
I love Damascus. I love wood even more! I'm not too keen on the hammered look but don't mind it.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Currently plastic, which I will probably still use for raw chicken etc, but plan to make an end grain wood board.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
I plan to learn.
If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes
Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I love wood. I'd love a real wood handle, I really like the look of the Shun premier, but they're pushing the budget and I've read there are better value alternatives.

Any help would be much appreciated. Charlie

~110 quid will get you a Tojiro DP (240mm) chef knife and a parer. (240 feels a bit clumsy first, but then you'll get used to it. And quite useful, when you want to cut cabbage, watermelon, roast meat, etc...)
Other option: These ones are quite alright to start with and even cheaper than the Tojiro DP. (Tojiros are thinner behind the edge, less wedging...) If you buy them as a set you get a chef knife, parer and bread knife for ~100 quid.
Another 100 quid will get you a decent starter sharpening stone setup.
Wouldn't bother about the magnetic holder just yet.
There are other shops in the UK and EU, but then you have to open up your wallet a bit more. (Wouldn't bother with non EU sellers either, because of extra VAT and tax. And Pound Sterling has lost quite a bit against other currencies as well.)
Mind you, this one will blow all the previously mentioned knives away. (Not stainless, so requires a bit more care.)

shownomarci said:

~110 quid will get you a Tojiro DP (240mm) chef knife and a parer. (240 feels a bit clumsy first, but then you'll get used to it. And quite useful, when you want to cut cabbage, watermelon, roast meat, etc...)
Other option: These ones are quite alright to start with and even cheaper than the Tojiro DP. (Tojiros are thinner behind the edge, less wedging...) If you buy them as a set you get a chef knife, parer and bread knife for ~100 quid.
Another 100 quid will get you a decent starter sharpening stone setup.
Wouldn't bother about the magnetic holder just yet.
There are other shops in the UK and EU, but then you have to open up your wallet a bit more. (Wouldn't bother with non EU sellers either, because of extra VAT and tax. And Pound Sterling has lost quite a bit against other currencies as well.)
Mind you, this one will blow all the previously mentioned knives away. (Not stainless, so requires a bit more care.)

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Very helpful.
The torijo look like good knives. Maybe a bit plain looking for my taste though.
The Eden knives look very good value for money! Again they don't look very 'special' but hard to ignore at those prices...
I didn't realise sharpening stones would be so expensive! I'd seen stones with a different grit on each side for about £15-20 and planned to get 2 (4 different grits). Are the cheap on s to b avoided?
That last one looks lovely. Wish I could read Dutch! Love the handle on it. Not sure I like the idea of non stainless. Ur it does look lovely I'll definitely consider it.

Any other thoughts? I was expecting to spend a bit more than that. The shun premier was I think £160 just for a chefs knife, which was pushing the budget a bit but I would if I had to. I loved the combination of Damascus and a wood handle on the shun.

Thanks
Charlie

On knives:
I started my journey with Tojiro DP-s 4 years ago and i am still using them to this day, even though i've got 'much better, nicer, expensive, etc.' knives.
They look plain, but they do their job. (You can get damascus version of them as well.)
Shun Premier has got the same core steel (VG-10) and without a doubt they look nicer, they might even perform better, but at their price point you could get much better knives.
I don't speak dutch either, but they probably speak english, so might as well send them a letter pointing at a knife you like (or more knives) and ask them how much it's gonna be with the shipping to the UK.
I've bought knives from swedish vendor and japanese vendor as well.
Another good UK vendor i've bought from and can recommend.
The easiest would be to write these guys a letter including your first post and await the answer.
On sharpening stones:
Why would you buy a cheap whatever stone, if you splash out on knives? If you buy decent knives, then get some decent stones as well and the ones i've linked in are not even that expensive.

shownomarci said:

On knives:
I started my journey with Tojiro DP-s 4 years ago and i am still using them to this day, even though i've got 'much better, nicer, expensive, etc.' knives.
They look plain, but they do their job. (You can get damascus version of them as well.)
Shun Premier has got the same core steel (VG-10) and without a doubt they look nicer, they might even perform better, but at their price point you could get much better knives.
I don't speak dutch either, but they probably speak english, so might as well send them a letter pointing at a knife you like (or more knives) and ask them how much it's gonna be with the shipping to the UK.
I've bought knives from swedish vendor and japanese vendor as well.
Another good UK vendor i've bought from and can recommend.
The easiest would be to write these guys a letter including your first post and await the answer.
On sharpening stones:
Why would you buy a cheap whatever stone, if you splash out on knives? If you buy decent knives, then get some decent stones as well and the ones i've linked in are not even that expensive.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.
I'll take another look at the tojiro. Although I think I like the Eden ones you linked earlier.
I'll also look at those other vendors, but at a quick glance the sites aren't too easy to look through unless you know which brand is what. There are a couple of very nice (very expensive ones!) I saw.

That's a fair point. I can understand where money goes on expensive knives, materials and workmanship, but hard to imagine there's much difference between a £10 1000 grit stone and a £50 1000 grit stone. I'll take your word for it though

Thanks
C

Don't have one myself but sure makes a pretty knife to fit your budget:

http://japanesechefsknife.com/SaiunDamascusSeries.html#Saiun

For value sharpening stuff just get the eden combi stones. Bit on the soft side but they sure get stuff sharp.

For a wood handle and stainless there is this:https://m.kookpunt.nl/tojiro-shippu-black-fd-1593-koksmes-18cm/nl/product/16467/

CharlieChops - welcome to the forum. Just a short note - you don't need to read Dutch. Just load the link into Chrome and ask it to translate.

In this price range its probably also worth looking at Fujiwarra Kanefusa FKM. The steel is slightly softer than Tojiro's VG10 and has an asymmetric edge. It's a monosteel, which some people prefer and the F&F may be slightly better.

Hi and welcome.

Check out Metalmaster and Tanaka VG10 damascus 210 with black handle. It's only 100 bucks. It's cutting abilities will easily outperform that Shun and even if both have the same VG10 core, Tanakas rendition is so much better. Much easier to sharpen and less chippy. Metalmaster sells a slightly roughly finished version though and the handle is very basic. But it does have a nice damascus pattern you are looking for. I've had the 240 gyuto and I have the 150 petty and both have some serious cutting skills.

If carbon is ok for you then take a look at Cleancut.se and Shiro Kamo Black Dragon. It's a KU finished B2 steel gyuto and the 210 size costs only about 115 pounds. It has a very nice Handle, the blade is flawlessly finished and it also is great cutter. The site is in Swedish, but just use Google translator.

JNS has the Itinomonn Kasumi stainLess 210 gyuto that would be good, but it's OOS.

Takamura R2 is another great performer just about in your budget.

If you are willing to push the budget a little bit check out K&S Syousin Suminigashi
http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-suminagashi-r2-damascus-gyuto-210mm-by-shiro-kamo/
I would think that could be just the ticket with the understated and stylish damascus, fully SS for easy maintenance, R2 core, and a very nice wood wa handle. It's a great middleweight gyuto.

JaVa said:

Hi and welcome.

Check out Metalmaster and Tanaka VG10 damascus 210 with black handle. It's only 100 bucks. It's cutting abilities will easily outperform that Shun and even if both have the same VG10 core, Tanakas rendition is so much better. Much easier to sharpen and less chippy. Metalmaster sells a slightly roughly finished version though and the handle is very basic. But it does have a nice damascus pattern you are looking for. I've had the 240 gyuto and I have the 150 petty and both have some serious cutting skills.

If carbon is ok for you then take a look at Cleancut.se and Shiro Kamo Black Dragon. It's a KU finished B2 steel gyuto and the 210 size costs only about 115 pounds. It has a very nice Handle, the blade is flawlessly finished and it also is great cutter. The site is in Swedish, but just use Google translator.

JNS has the Itinomonn Kasumi stainLess 210 gyuto that would be good, but it's OOS.

Takamura R2 is another great performer just about in your budget.

If you are willing to push the budget a little bit check out K&S Syousin Suminigashi
http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-suminagashi-r2-damascus-gyuto-210mm-by-shiro-kamo/
I would think that could be just the ticket with the understated and stylish damascus, fully SS for easy maintenance, R2 core, and a very nice wood wa handle. It's a great middleweight gyuto.

Click to expand...

lus1:
Yes to almost every suggestion JaVa made! The exception is the Takamura R2 - I personally love the knife but you said you didn't want a laser and it most definitely is one.
But beware... JaVa tends to promote the Shiro Kamo range a lot. But they are great knives at a great price!

The Shiro Kamos are great knives at a great price. Well worth going for if you can stretch the budget.

The only caveat is that they are quite tall. I personally like this profile very much, but there was one member (who was a bit shorter than me) who found it uncomfortable to hold a taller knife and sold their Shiro Kamo. Having said that, if you are OK with a cleaver, you will definitely be fine.

Thanks for all the replies!

merlijny2k said:

Don't have one myself but sure makes a pretty knife to fit your budget:

http://japanesechefsknife.com/SaiunDamascusSeries.html#Saiun

For value sharpening stuff just get the eden combi stones. Bit on the soft side but they sure get stuff sharp.

Click to expand...

They do look nice.

By Eden combi do you mean these? http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/pt/-skerper-basic-combi-waterstone-grain-1000-3000-sh002.htm

merlijny2k said:

For a wood handle and stainless there is this:https://m.kookpunt.nl/tojiro-shippu-black-fd-1593-koksmes-18cm/nl/product/16467/

Click to expand...

Funny you should mention that! I love it. I found this http://www.chefslocker.co.uk/store/p3/TOJIRO_'SHIPPU'_​VG10_DAMASCUS_Gyuto/Chef (210mm).html ages ago but say not in stock .

Marek07 said:

CharlieChops - welcome to the forum. Just a short note - you don't need to read Dutch. Just load the link into Chrome and ask it to translate.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm on an iPad with safari, is there a way to translate on there?

Nemo said:

In this price range its probably also worth looking at Fujiwarra Kanefusa FKM. The steel is slightly softer than Tojiro's VG10 and has an asymmetric edge. It's a monosteel, which some people prefer and the F&F may be slightly better.

Click to expand...

I like them

JaVa said:

Hi and welcome.

Check out Metalmaster and Tanaka VG10 damascus 210 with black handle. It's only 100 bucks. It's cutting abilities will easily outperform that Shun and even if both have the same VG10 core, Tanakas rendition is so much better. Much easier to sharpen and less chippy. Metalmaster sells a slightly roughly finished version though and the handle is very basic. But it does have a nice damascus pattern you are looking for. I've had the 240 gyuto and I have the 150 petty and both have some serious cutting skills.

If carbon is ok for you then take a look at Cleancut.se and Shiro Kamo Black Dragon. It's a KU finished B2 steel gyuto and the 210 size costs only about 115 pounds. It has a very nice Handle, the blade is flawlessly finished and it also is great cutter. The site is in Swedish, but just use Google translator.

JNS has the Itinomonn Kasumi stainLess 210 gyuto that would be good, but it's OOS.

Takamura R2 is another great performer just about in your budget.

If you are willing to push the budget a little bit check out K&S Syousin Suminigashi
http://www.knivesandstones.com/syousin-suminagashi-r2-damascus-gyuto-210mm-by-shiro-kamo/
I would think that could be just the ticket with the understated and stylish damascus, fully SS for easy maintenance, R2 core, and a very nice wood wa handle. It's a great middleweight gyuto.

Click to expand...

These ones? http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product-list/5 I really really like those with wood handles.

This one? http://www.cleancut.se/butik/knivse...3-08-22-12-33-182013-08-22-12-33-18-86-detail Looks really nice! Can't seem to google translate on my iPad, but love the looks of it. I'll have to look at whether I think carbon would be ok for me.

This? Looks very nice http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kasumi-240mm-wa-gyuto/

This? Again, looks really nice http://thechoppingblockco.co.uk/products/takamura-r2-migaki-210mm-gyuto

That last one looks amazing too. Thanks!

Lots of options on the knives, but I spent about 2 hours earlier looking at stones and got completely overwhelmed by information!
Just this site alone has at least 5 different brands/ranges of stones. http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/ct/whetstones-sharpening-stones.htm


Thanks for all the help

@CharlieChops
You said: "I'm on an iPad with safari, is there a way to translate on there?"
Not an Apple user but a quick check showed that Google Chrome is available for iPad. Download it and use it instead of Safari - it should translate pages just like it does on PC.
Apple users - feel free to offer an alternative solution.

The brittish knivesandtools stone offering is somewhat different from the dutch i see. Dutch site doesn't have Skerper brand and grits are different too. 3000 is a bit too low for a final grit, on the dutch site there is a 2k/5k eden stone for 30e instead the 1k/3k. However you could go from 3k to this http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/ct/ardennes-coticule-belgian-whetstones.htm and get an even better result than the 5k gives. I don't own a coti but i have used one and i think it is really hard to get a better finish for that price. Otherwise look for a King 1k/6k combi stone. Those are usually pretty easy to come by and rather affordable. Not sure why the Shippu seems sold out everywhere. Tojiro is a pretty big company and doesn't usually have major resupply issues afaik.

My bad the eden line with the 2k/5k stone is just discontinued. Was around for a long time so i had just figured it was still there.

Marek07 said:

lus1:
Yes to almost every suggestion JaVa made! The exception is the Takamura R2 - I personally love the knife but you said you didn't want a laser and it most definitely is one.
But beware... JaVa tends to promote the Shiro Kamo range a lot. But they are great knives at a great price!

Click to expand...

:lol2:
Me? Suggesting Shiro Kamos? ..Naah, never have I... Well maybe once or twice? ...OK, Maybe just a few times? :lol2:
In my defence... Can't really think of anything.
...Just really great knives with unbeatable value for $$$.

Oh, and what was it again? The knife that is your wifes new favourite?

I missed the part about the OP not wanting a laser. In that case, yeah scratch the Takamura R2.

If the Shiro Kamo 'Black Dragon' is blue #2, the it's the same as Eden Kanso Aogami.
I do have one and it takes a killer edge and holds it for a long time, but the cladding is quite reactive. (Especially for someone who hasn't used carbon steel knives before.)

No damascus cladding and no japanese handle, but i would consider the Syogeki 210 gyuto from the Buy/Sell/Trade part of the forum.

CharlieChops said:

These ones? http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product-list/5 I really really like those with wood handles.

This one? http://www.cleancut.se/butik/knivse...3-08-22-12-33-182013-08-22-12-33-18-86-detail Looks really nice! Can't seem to google translate on my iPad, but love the looks of it. I'll have to look at whether I think carbon would be ok for me.

This? Looks very nice http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kasumi-240mm-wa-gyuto/

This? Again, looks really nice http://thechoppingblockco.co.uk/products/takamura-r2-migaki-210mm-gyuto

That last one looks amazing too. Thanks!

Click to expand...

I was about to warn you about the Chopping Block, but they seem to be shut down for now. They seemed to be taking money without sending products.

But otherwise yeah those ones! :thumbsup:

The MM versions of Tanaka knives with ho wood handles are very roughly finished. Nothing that a little sand paper can't take care of, but just good to know. Also all Tanakas are great cutters, but the B2 versions are super reactive. So if you are looking at those beware of that.

The Tanaka VG10 versions are superb alrounders. Easy to sharpen for VG10 with great edge retention.

There's also the K&S version of the Tanaka B2 knives with SS cladding (exclusively). Tanaka B2 is easiest to sharpen of these choices with all the great Tanaka abilities without the crazy reactivity. But another one that's OOS. James has a new batch coming in possibly during January, but they'll fly out the door.

If the Itinomonn interests you. Email Maxim to find out when he's getting more. It's a superb all round knife that's good at everything. Best profile in this group and best food release too (IMO). Second best edge retention and second easiest to sharpen.

The Kamo BD is also quite reactive, (but not quite as reactive as the Tanaka B2 Damascus). Wide bevel grind with food release on par with the Itinomonn. Easy to sharpen, slightly better edge retention than the Tanaka B2. Unbelievable F&F for the $$$. Nice in between size that's around 220mm.

Syousin Suminigashi is a nice middleweight that's very thin behind the edge with convex grind. Even if it's not that thick the tall profile means there's a good amount of steel in the blade that translates to blade heavy balance which makes it the most powerful cutter and best edge retention of the group. (The R2 core feels slightly toothier compared to the Takamura R2.) Hardest to sharpen, but still very easy. (It's just that we're comparing to the likes of Tanaka that get's screaming sharp just thinking about sharpening stones.)

Thanks fo the replies. Sorry I missed a couple before.

Marek07 said:

lus1:
Yes to almost every suggestion JaVa made! The exception is the Takamura R2 - I personally love the knife but you said you didn't want a laser and it most definitely is one.
But beware... JaVa tends to promote the Shiro Kamo range a lot. But they are great knives at a great price!

Click to expand...

Is he on commission? they do look nice.

Nemo said:

The Shiro Kamos are great knives at a great price. Well worth going for if you can stretch the budget.

The only caveat is that they are quite tall. I personally like this profile very much, but there was one member (who was a bit shorter than me) who found it uncomfortable to hold a taller knife and sold their Shiro Kamo. Having said that, if you are OK with a cleaver, you will definitely be fine.

Click to expand...

Good info, thanks.

Marek07 said:

@CharlieChops
You said: "I'm on an iPad with safari, is there a way to translate on there?"
Not an Apple user but a quick check showed that Google Chrome is available for iPad. Download it and use it instead of Safari - it should translate pages just like it does on PC.
Apple users - feel free to offer an alternative solution.

Click to expand...

I'll look into that, thanks.

merlijny2k said:

The brittish knivesandtools stone offering is somewhat different from the dutch i see. Dutch site doesn't have Skerper brand and grits are different too. 3000 is a bit too low for a final grit, on the dutch site there is a 2k/5k eden stone for 30e instead the 1k/3k. However you could go from 3k to this http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/ct/ardennes-coticule-belgian-whetstones.htm and get an even better result than the 5k gives. I don't own a coti but i have used one and i think it is really hard to get a better finish for that price. Otherwise look for a King 1k/6k combi stone. Those are usually pretty easy to come by and rather affordable. Not sure why the Shippu seems sold out everywhere. Tojiro is a pretty big company and doesn't usually have major resupply issues afaik.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I've got a good idea of what knives I like now, but completely overwhelmed by the sharpening products!
Would getting just the king 1000/6000 be ok, or do I need something lower grit, plus something in between 1/6k, plus a honing rod, plus a thingy to flatten the sharpening stone?
If I do need the lot then I'm thinking this http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/...00-3000-with-ceramic-sharpening-rod-sh004.htm
Plus this (or bigger if needed) http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/pt/-ardennes-coticule-standard-75-x-30-mm-slijpsteen.htm or maybe this http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/pt/-ardennes-coticule-belgian-blue-whetstone200-x-40-mm.htm

merlijny2k said:

My bad the eden line with the 2k/5k stone is just discontinued. Was around for a long time so i had just figured it was still there.

Click to expand...

JaVa said:

:lol2:
Me? Suggesting Shiro Kamos? ..Naah, never have I... Well maybe once or twice? ...OK, Maybe just a few times? :lol2:
In my defence... Can't really think of anything.
...Just really great knives with unbeatable value for $$$.

Oh, and what was it again? The knife that is your wifes new favourite?

I missed the part about the OP not wanting a laser. In that case, yeah scratch the Takamura R2.

Click to expand...

JaVa said:

I was about to warn you about the Chopping Block, but they seem to be shut down for now. They seemed to be taking money without sending products.

But otherwise yeah those ones! :thumbsup:

The MM versions of Tanaka knives with ho wood handles are very roughly finished. Nothing that a little sand paper can't take care of, but just good to know. Also all Tanakas are great cutters, but the B2 versions are super reactive. So if you are looking at those beware of that.

The Tanaka VG10 versions are superb alrounders. Easy to sharpen for VG10 with great edge retention.

There's also the K&S version of the Tanaka B2 knives with SS cladding (exclusively). Tanaka B2 is easiest to sharpen of these choices with all the great Tanaka abilities without the crazy reactivity. But another one that's OOS. James has a new batch coming in possibly during January, but they'll fly out the door.

If the Itinomonn interests you. Email Maxim to find out when he's getting more. It's a superb all round knife that's good at everything. Best profile in this group and best food release too (IMO). Second best edge retention and second easiest to sharpen.

The Kamo BD is also quite reactive, (but not quite as reactive as the Tanaka B2 Damascus). Wide bevel grind with food release on par with the Itinomonn. Easy to sharpen, slightly better edge retention than the Tanaka B2. Unbelievable F&F for the $$$. Nice in between size that's around 220mm.

Syousin Suminigashi is a nice middleweight that's very thin behind the edge with convex grind. Even if it's not that thick the tall profile means there's a good amount of steel in the blade that translates to blade heavy balance which makes it the most powerful cutter and best edge retention of the group. (The R2 core feels slightly toothier compared to the Takamura R2.) Hardest to sharpen, but still very easy. (It's just that we're comparing to the likes of Tanaka that get's screaming sharp just thinking about sharpening stones.)

Click to expand...

Thanks, but to be honest you've lost me a little. What does reactive mean?

To be honest I'm thinking of going a bit cheaper to start with, both with the sharpening and knives, seeing what I like and then upgrading later in the year (also gives me a chance to ruin my first set of good knives/stones without worrying too much )
I'm seriously considering the Eden knives shown near the start of the thread. Maybe this set http://www.knivesandtools.co.uk/en/pt/-eden-classic-damast-3-piece-knife-set.htm





A bit off the rest of the topic (maybe I should start a new thread?) but I have loads of oak, so am considering making an oak cutting board. I've read a few places that this isn't ideal as oak is rimg porous (large pores) so can harbour bacteria. Is this a very real problem? I see them for sale quite a lot anyway.


Thanks again. C

Welcome to kkf. I won't toe into above recommendations as they are all good.

Do not get a rod hone, no need for it.

Reactive means that the knife has an outer clad, that is likely as reactive or even more so than the cutting edge core, which is usually a high carbon steel. The reactive outer cladding is usually iron.

Note that the core can also be reactive, but it is not usually as much as the outer clad.

Iron rusts, and such a reaction happens when you cut into acid foods, as the knife reacts. Onions will go brown, not best with tomatoes. It will also rust if left wet or dirty.

If this bothers you then look for a stainless outer clad knife

Like guari said, a carbon knife with iron cladding will react to foods and if left wet will rust. It's not a problem if you wipe it down dry right after use. In time it will develop a nice dark patina. The upside is that the carbon steel core is easier to sharpen compared to SS. Carbon knives also get sharper and they have a nicer feel on the stones than SS.

The Eden knives you linked I have recommended for one of my chefs a few years a go. It fit all his requirements spot on. It's a very nice knife for the price and very well finished too. Two things to note, The handle is micarta not wood. Micarta is very very durable, but heavy material made of resin impregnated layers of cloth. With the metal bolster, metal end cap and full tang there's a lot of weight in the handle. It's a very heavy knife with a handle heavy balance. Nothing wrong with any of that, but just good to know. Some guys prefer that.

My chef was a very big guy with a small budget. He was looking for a well finished SS knife with damascus and he likes handle heavy balance so the the Eden was perfect for him and he still has it. He loves it and uses it every day. He dislikes all my lighter wa handled knives with a blade heavy balance. :lol2:

Different strokes...

For examples of reactive knives with patina, check out this thread:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...avorite-color-is-BLUE!-A-patina-thread/page75

In some knives, you see it's just the edge, and in others it's the whole blade that reacts.

What stones you need depends on what you want to do. For a Japanese knife or any hard steel knife no rod as was mentioned before. Course stone is for thinning edges and sharpening very blunt or damaged knives. I used my course stone a lot to improve my old knives and find it fun. Honing steel is very handy for softer steel knives. So if you plan on continuing to use some knives you already have the combi deal might be worth it, for your new knife finer stones only should suffice for couple years. Coti stone i would recommend getting 150mm length minimum, width is less important. The 75mm will be uncomfortable. If you do get the rod you have to chose between diamond and ceramic. Diamond is faster and more agressive but loses its agressiveness with use. Ceramic is kinder on your knives and is the default choice on this forum i believe. No experience with diamond rod myself though.

There is a lot of difference between knives as to how they react to a sharpening stone. Cheap thick edged stainless knives need many hard strokes on a fairly course stonebefore anything starts to nitceably improve. The Kanso Aogami from knivesandtools comes with such a thin edge in carbon steel i could once remove a chip in just a handfull of strokes on 2k stone.

Thanks for the replies everyone, very helpful

JaVa said:

The Eden knives you linked I have recommended for one of my chefs a few years a go. It fit all his requirements spot on. It's a very nice knife for the price and very well finished too. Two things to note, The handle is micarta not wood. Micarta is very very durable, but heavy material made of resin impregnated layers of cloth. With the metal bolster, metal end cap and full tang there's a lot of weight in the handle. It's a very heavy knife with a handle heavy balance. Nothing wrong with any of that, but just good to know. Some guys prefer that.

Different strokes...

Click to expand...

Good point. If you want to learn pich grip a handle heavy knife is not suitable to that. All my handle heavy knives went out the door or i cut off the back end / gave them new handles etc. Also a quality Japanese knife has a real WOW factor for a first time user. The Eden knife is probably worth it's money with ease but you might just miss out on the wow factor. I have yet to see a chinese made blade that is sharper and thinner than a quality german knife, and those are miles behind what comes out of Japan. If the heattreat is right (probably is) you do get exellent edge retention from the VG10 steel for cheap, and you can put the killer edge on later. That is not necessarily easy. I've practiced my thinning and skills almost every week for about a year now but still nowhere near pro knifemaker levels.

Since you are in the UK, you could check out the Heston Blumenthal knives at Waitrose. HB & Tojiro coproduction. AUS-10 core steel @ 60HRC.