Watanabe knife performance Standard/Special and Pro

Hi Everyone, I have been communicating with Shinichi in regards to ordering from him. he has recommended me to get a Kuroushi sujihiki with a custom handle. I just want to get some opinion from all of you who have been using his knife. Is there any difference in performance between the recommended knife compared to his pro line? other than the surface looks as he has told me.

Win

You might notice more drag with the different finishes. Otherwise I would be inclined to believe he would know his knives best.

A polished knife with the kurouchi layer removed would be slightly thinner. They should both cut well. From a functional perspective, for a slicing knife, thinner is usually better.

The other side is aesthetics...

Thinking a few years down the road, will you have rather bought a kurouchi or a polished finish.

For myself early on I bought chestnut handles, but later preferred keyaki handles. The blade is still the same.

Similarly if I had started with kurouchi, I would have gravitated towards polished later.

It may or may not matter for what you like.

I suggest not to deal with Watanabe. If you get a problem you are on your own. He will not move a finger.
If you like heavy blades, Maxim at JNS offers Toyama Noborikoi which is almost identical to Watanabe. They both had same teacher kinda of...

Ruso said:

I suggest not to deal with Watanabe. If you get a problem you are on your own. He will not move a finger.
If you like heavy blades, Maxim at JNS offers Toyama Noborikoi which is almost identical to Watanabe. They both had same teacher kinda of...

Click to expand...

Strange. My experiences with Watanabe have been very good.

The Toyama and Watanabe families work closely together. Watanabe was trained by Toyama who himself was trained by a member of the Watanabe family. Their styles are very similar.

Jkts said:

Strange. My experiences with Watanabe have been very good.

The Toyama and Watanabe families work closely together. Watanabe was trained by Toyama who himself was trained by a member of the Watanabe family. Their styles are very similar.

Click to expand...

Ruso had a yanagi which he wasn't happy with as there as a bit of a curve, which can be common and is (probably) wabi-sabi stuff which is usually inevitable anyways and can be corrected. My single bevels Shinichi made are perfect.

s0real said:

Hi Everyone, I have been communicating with Shinichi in regards to ordering from him. he has recommended me to get a Kuroushi sujihiki with a custom handle. I just want to get some opinion from all of you who have been using his knife. Is there any difference in performance between the recommended knife compared to his pro line? other than the surface looks as he has told me.

Win

Click to expand...

I wouldn't necessarily base your decision to purchase or not based on the feedback of one member. See the many happy members (such as nutmeg) who have also purchased his knives.

I would personally go for the pro line and in a polished finish... I also have a small 200mm yanagi from the special line and the only differences I can detect is that the F&F is a bit better on the pro (eg. more even ura, better polish between shinogi and edge, etc.)

My understanding of what Ruso was trying to point out is not the fact that the knife had an issue, but the fact that Shinichi apparently did not do much to solve the issue in a way Ruso would have appreciated. I am saying this as a very happy customer of Shinichi. But I also like when all sides of the story are given their voice.

You will get more drag through proteins with a Kurouchi Suji than you would with a Kasumi. A Ku finish is less of an issue on a taller blade such as a Gyuto, Nakiri, Santoku. I have all three and still notice the drag on anything that meets the Ku finish, such as you would with a Suji that is typically under 40mm tall.

Don't get a Ku Suji. Get a Kasumi finish.

Hi !
I will exactly get a Ku-Suji-Petty like you mention from Watanabe wich is around 40mm tall
He told me that it would not matter on those small knifes if i get it KU or Kasumi.
It does matter on a big 240mm Gyuto.

Watanabe makes the best heat threatment of any japanese traditional blacksmiths and his communication is very good.

I am sorry that it turned out not as you expected Ruso, but i cant recommend your advice!

Just ordered a proffesional santoku yesterday, after a good email comunication with Sin. Was shipped today. Keep you posted about the outcome.

Thanks everyone for the opinion and advice. Just waiting on quotes from Shinichi for my 300mm Suji.

^^Enjoy your purchase!

Thanks Matus. It's not that the yangi was bent, it's how he handled the situation.

To all good review guys/gals, why do you think I decided to order from him in the first place?

2Krassi

Watanabe makes the best heat threatment of any japanese traditional blacksmiths

Click to expand...

It's quite a huge statement to make.

Got a 240mm Guyto polished pro line from him. Super happy with the discussion, the purchase itself, the shipping and the blade. The handle (stadanrd) is not perfect (small gap at the ferulle/handle junction). But the knife is so cool and performant, that I pass on that. I will make a full review soon.

zetieum said:

Got a 240mm Guyto polished pro line from him. Super happy with the discussion, the purchase itself, the shipping and the blade. The handle (stadanrd) is not perfect (small gap at the ferulle/handle junction). But the knife is so cool and performant, that I pass on that. I will make a full review soon.

Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to seeing it, from the pic I saw it looks like you also had him put the kanji on the left side?

@Ruso
Well lets say one of the best.. his knifes are not as fragile like most others .. but well its ironic that you say that about huge statements
Interesting what path this thread went

Seeya

Krassi said:

@Ruso
Well lets say one of the best.. his knifes are not as fragile like most others .. but well its ironic that you say that about huge statements
Interesting what path this thread went

Seeya

Click to expand...

Honestly, it looks like you are getting your info from the thin air. "Not as fragile like most others?" Do you measure good heat treatment in fragility? What others?
I have no doubt he is a good blade-smith and he has his heat treatment dialled-in, but you should not make this kind of statements unless you have some kind of proof or you are an expert on this subject and have made a relevant study.

Well not from thin air but from the experience from other users. with a more robust angle done with a sharpening system the edge lasts very long.
Honestly you should not tell other people just for fun not to deal with Watanabe. If someone wants a toyama then he should get one.
I will get mine and it will rock! So have a nice day, honestly

It is not my problem, but:
Krassi, I think that you sound somehow aggressive without reason.
In these forums, we are supposed to exchange information, that's what Russo did.
Matus explained the reason.
In the past, I had ordered a really long knife from JCK, it had a tiny curve, I send it back, problem was solved. I am happy.
If that didn't work on Ruso's case, I can't blame him.
Watanabe is respected here.
Sooner or later I will buy from him as well.
In a mail exchange that I happened to have with him in the past, I had good communication.
Simple as that.
Peace Love Kitchen knife enjoyment

Hi Well i am sorry if i left the wrong impression. that was not intended!
But its super ok to speak about cases that went wrong but please dondt give general warnings about a craftsmen. Thats what gotten me like that
So i still hope that you still got happy with your knife Ruso!
Sometime its strange that it works 100% for you and most people and someone else has a bad case.. in some cases its not an error in the eye of japanese craftsmen (well what a very picky german like me would see different ) )

if we get back to the point of the performance differences the standard and pro knifes are not really different. well the finishing is way better with the pro series wich is reflected in the price.
as mentioned with the smaller blades the different is minimal between kasumi and ku finish. I would go for a pro unless i would rehandle the knife.. the standards have plastic bolsters.

Seeya, Daniel

[emoji106]

supersayan3 said:

It is not my problem, but:
Krassi, I think that you sound somehow aggressive without reason.
In these forums, we are supposed to exchange information, that's what Russo did.
Matus explained the reason.
In the past, I had ordered a really long knife from JCK, it had a tiny curve, I send it back, problem was solved. I am happy.
If that didn't work on Ruso's case, I can't blame him.
Watanabe is respected here.
Sooner or later I will buy from him as well.
In a mail exchange that I happened to have with him in the past, I had good communication.
Simple as that.
Peace Love Kitchen knife enjoyment

Click to expand...

Drink some whiskey, it's just a knife

What does that mean?

I wasn't relaxed at a satisfying degree?