The best supplement for my Takeda AS Gyuto 240?

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nkbitsch

nkbitsch

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Hi everyone,

This is my first post on this forum, and I hope that I'm posting in the right category :).

I originally made a post in the CKtG forum, but unfortunately big parts of the forum got deleted.

11 years ago I bought a Takeda AS Gyuto 240 which I'm using every single day. It's my only Japanese knife, and has become my favorite tool in the kitchen.

I use my Takeda for most tasks, but sometimes I find my self in need of a smaller knife.

I'm not a collector, and the price doesn't have much impact on my decision as I rarely buy a new knife.

What I'm looking for is a carbon steel knife with good edge retention and a Japanese style handle. I have been looking at the TOYAMA NOBORIKOI where Maxim has a 180 petty damascus in stock now.

Is this a good decision, and what would you recommend?

Best
Niels
 
That's a good knife. If you want something cheaper a takamura r2 150mm petty would be a nice choice. Small enough for in hand work, detail work and slicing cooked protein. It's very thin 1.4-1.5mm at the heel and around 31-32 mm tall. Cheapish at 120. Most people recommend stainless for petties due to the nature of their job
 
It really depends on how you intend to use it. If you want a smaller knife with knuckle clearance for board use I'd recommend a Bunka (I have one from Kurosaki in aogami and I find it wonderful) or a petty of knuckle clearance is not important or necessary.

Maybe even a Nakiri if you like that shape
 
I think the OP is looking for carbon, R2 is stainless right? Toyama is a great choice, also check out munetoshi at JNS, they have a 165mm petty you might like. Jon at japanese knife imports has an assortment of kochi carbon Pettys you might dig too along with other smaller blade types.
 
Thank you so much for your replies!

I'm thinking of using it for tasks where i feel that the 240 gyuto is a bit to big. An example could be parting up a chicken or slicing up a mango or an avocado.

Knuckle clearance is not deadly important for the tasks I will be using it for, but I always feel it a bit annoying when it isn't there. Another alternative might be a smaller gyuto?
 
If its not strictly for in hand work a light 180mm gyuto or 165mm santoku might be what you are looking for. Note, that santoku is less suitable for delicate tip work.
 
nkbitsch said:
Thank you so much for your replies!

I'm thinking of using it for tasks where i feel that the 240 gyuto is a bit to big. An example could be parting up a chicken or slicing up a mango or an avocado.

Knuckle clearance is not deadly important for the tasks I will be using it for, but I always feel it a bit annoying when it isn't there. Another alternative might be a smaller gyuto?
Click to expand...
I would grab a 180mm petty if I were you. 150mm if you want in hand cutting/210mm for board, somehow a 180mm does a half ass job at both.
 
I think a 130 to 180 mm knife from tall petty, bunka, or mini-gyuto is a great knife when you don't want to bust out a 240. On a recent four day vacation trip, I did meal prep for 8 people with just a 130 mm petty and a 160 mm bunka for every cutting, chopping, slicing, and peeling task in the kitchen. And though I brought both knives along, I would've been fine with either one alone.

Toyama and Munetoshi get a lot of love here, but I am waiting to try a Munetoshi 240 gyuto myself. I think you will probably be good to go with a petty as supplement to your gyuto.

Alternatively, I think daveb has an Ealy line knife on sale at a really good price in the BST board.
 
All you comments are very helpful, thank you! I might have a look at the Ealy, though I see it's 210. I'm not familiar with the Ealy line. What kind steel is it, and who makes it?
 
I just looked up AEB-L and it sounds interesting. The only reason why I prefer carbon steel is because of the edge retention, and the ease of sharpening.

I like the shape of it, so if AEB-L share the same benefits, then it might be my new life long companion :).
 
I don't mean to piss in anyone's Cheerios here, but I've never found AEB-L to be carbon like. Certain jmakers that work w Swedish stainless have been able to produce some nice steel compared to most other stainless steel, but if carbon is what you like and are used to I would stick with it if I were you. 13% chromium will behave like 13% chromium.
 
Suggesting stainless to someone that wants carbon. what about a diamond honing steel to go with it?

For a contrast to Takeda but shorter, try a munetoshi 210 gyuto. It is reactive but as long as you wipe and keep dry it's not a problem.
 
I find SOME petties come with exactly enough knuckle clearance to get by if correctly pinched -or even more than that. Best to try ;) And tall, short knives like a ko-santoku or kawamuki (while I do love them) trade knuckle clearance against tunnel grip clearance (harder to work under your hand).

@labor of love edge retention wise, or thinness/acuteness potential wise?
 
The Munetoshis looks very interesting too - a bit like the takedas with a more rough finish.

I can also see that there is a lot of Shigs being sold on the forum at affordable prices, and that I just missed a 180 Gyuto.

I might have a look at the BST forum to see if there is a knife showing up there, that could be interesting.

Would you prefer the Munetoshis to the Toyamas, or are they completely different knifes?
 
I have a kochi 180mm kiritsuke shaped santoku. https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...kochi-180mm-kurouchi-kiritsuke-shaped-santoku and it is a great knife. Honestly, I find myself grabbing it more often than either of my 240mm gyutos. It is laser sharp, can be used for some tip work (it would be awkward to use it for hand work, but not as awkward as a 240mm gyuto).

if you are just looking for a petty, I have loved my watanabe 150mm petty (pro line). Its just a great knife and basically indestructible.
 
I have only heard good things about the Kochi knives, and the kiritsuke shaped santoku looks like a good shape for a small allround knife. I think it looks a bit bulky though, but for me it's always hard to judge before having it in my hand using it. For me it's also a question of being used to a knife. In the beginning I thought my 240 gyuto was way too big, but today I am more than happy that I went for that size.
 
nkbitsch said:
Thank you so much for your replies!

I'm thinking of using it for tasks where i feel that the 240 gyuto is a bit to big. An example could be parting up a chicken or slicing up a mango or an avocado.

Knuckle clearance is not deadly important for the tasks I will be using it for, but I always feel it a bit annoying when it isn't there. Another alternative might be a smaller gyuto?
Click to expand...

I use my Tadatsuna 180mm White #2 petty for all of those tasks; it feels a little long sometimes, a 150mm petty would do fine. A honesuki is supposed to be the ideal weapon for parting and boning a chicken, and it will have knuckle clearance for you. You could probably get it to slice a mango or avocado too.
 
CompE said:
I use my Tadatsuna 180mm White #2 petty for all of those tasks; it feels a little long sometimes, a 150mm petty would do fine. A honesuki is supposed to be the ideal weapon for parting and boning a chicken, and it will have knuckle clearance for you. You could probably get it to slice a mango or avocado too.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more with this. A 150 petty is a great go to size for many tasks. For chicken, try a honesuki- it feels so natural and it's a pleasure to use.
 
So now it seems that I might actually be up for two knives :sly:
 
nkbitsch said:
So now it seems that I might actually be up for two knives :sly:
Click to expand...

There is a special knife for every task- it can be endless...

If you have a sharp petty for many smaller tasks, you might not want it for cutting around chicken joints and bones when you part out a chicken. A honesuki is ideal for this.

If you cut up enough chickens, it's worth getting. I use it for chicken soups, tagines, curries, stews and other dishes where I want to break down to pieces, to strip meat using the carcass for stock, or to carve up a roast chicken.
 
Is it the lack of rotational leverage that makes >150mm petties feel so halberdy and long?
 
nkbitsch said:
Hi everyone,

This is my first post on this forum, and I hope that I'm posting in the right category :).

I originally made a post in the CKtG forum, but unfortunately big parts of the forum got deleted.

11 years ago I bought a Takeda AS Gyuto 240 which I'm using every single day. It's my only Japanese knife, and has become my favorite tool in the kitchen.

I use my Takeda for most tasks, but sometimes I find my self in need of a smaller knife.

I'm not a collector, and the price doesn't have much impact on my decision as I rarely buy a new knife.

What I'm looking for is a carbon steel knife with good edge retention and a Japanese style handle. I have been looking at the TOYAMA NOBORIKOI where Maxim has a 180 petty damascus in stock now.

Is this a good decision, and what would you recommend?

Best
Niels
Click to expand...

180 petty is a damn good option and Toyama is a good maker. If you are good at sharpening and won't mess up the damascus, it would be a top knife for a long time.

Other options would be a 180 Gyuto if you like height and knuckle clearance. Watanabe does a stainless clad Pro carbon blade and is similar to a Toyama. He has very nice damascus too.

Lastly, a 150-160 honesuki is a great option for a smaller size and quite different to the Takeda Gyuto in use and style.

I personally would go petty 180 or Gyuto 180 if I stopped at two knives. Honesuki if I stretched to three :)

Also, if you love sharpening carbon, stick with carbon!
 
So I ended up buying the Toyama 180 petty Damascus today, even though I got a bit tempted by some of the other great recommendations. It was twice as expensive as the regular 180 petty, but as it is a knife that I'm going to use every day, I thought it should be a little special. I can't wait to receive it, and I will post a picture as soon as it arrived. Thank you once again!
 
Good call. Now starts the pain of waiting for it. :lol2:
 
You are right! I'm entering the painful process of waiting now. I have a little side-question that probably should have had its own thread, but I'm wondering. Does the value of a knife increase or decrease in value if the original handle is removed and it is professionally re-handled?
 
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