Looking for a wa handle stainless/semi-stainless laser/HD2 alternative

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AzHP

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Hey all,

I'm a home chef and I've got a Kurosaki, a Koishi, and a konosuke hammered (same smith as the Tetsuhiro hammered) gyuto, but I'm looking for something thin that I can rifle through product with when the mood strikes me. The hammered and KU finishes grind my knuckles when I go too fast on onions, so I'm looking for something with a smooth finish, thin but with a decent grind. I've got enough carbon steel so looking for semi-stainless or stainless. Max budget is probably $300. I prefer 210mm but an undersized 240mm would be ok. Decent size flat spot for chopping is preferred but not required. Is the HD2 the end all be all for this? The Shibata Kotetsu 210mm, the Konosuke GS/GS+, and the sukenari ginsan are on my radar as well, but just wanted to throw my checklist at the forum and see what you all think. I had a Takamura R2 210mm and it checks almost all the boxes, but I didn't like the western handle.
 
Can we all just call it Tadatuna? I think that really sounds nice.

Like tah dahhhhh tuna!
 
foody518 said:
Gesshin Ginga stainless?
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I actually intentionally left this one off my list to see if someone would recommend it. Any particular reason why you're recommending it?
 
I have the Tadatsuna inox; when I asked Jon at JKI if if he thought I'd get better edge retention out of the Gesshin or the Suisin IH, he said no. He's owned all these knives and said there wasn't a significant difference, except in how the Susisin is sharpened (which can be duplicated with in others).

I have not owned the Suisin or Gesshin so can't comment first hand.
 
Just of top of my head: Ginga, Sakai Yusuke, Takamura R2 Pro (black handle) or Migaki (red handle), Konosuke GS
 
AzHP said:
Did a little digging on this, sounds like edge retention isn't up to par compared to other knives in that category. Any particular reason why it went out of vogue?
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Edge retention was no worse than any of its competitors, as far as I am concerned.

The Tadatsuna was the victim of lowball pricing of the Konosuke coupled with a bad case of unavailability at the time that everyone wanted a "laser". Since then, of course, the prices of Konosuke have been allowed to rise back to profitability.
 
I remember the Tadatsuna had the nicest standard handle and saya around. The Suisin Inox honyaki was pretty nice as well.
 
i have a Tadatsuna 240 inox gyuto, it's my fav.

i also have several knives from them from various line. Tadatsuna is my fav brand for standard steel, like white, blue, inox
 
I think Tadatsuna's day in the sun came when people had discovered the glories of the Suisin, but then watched it get priced out of reach. Then as if out of nowhere, the Tadatsuna appeared, with nearly identical geometry and metallurgy, a handle and kanji and saya that some people liked more, a somewhat exotic name, direct sales from the factory store with great service, and a price point $100 lower. What wasn't to love?

Over the next few years, several things happened (Mr. P. Tiger mentioned most of them). Konosuke came out with an even cheaper version of the same idea. Tadatsuna's price went up. The factory store disappeared from the web (I believe that Hideki, who ran the store and took the web orders, was having health problems). It got harder to find the knives and some people thought the company had gone belly-up. And now, years later, the "laser" has become a recognized category and there are quite a few choices.
 
HD2 isn't necessarily the end-all be-all, but it definitely is nice. While there certainly is hype around it, it's not entirely unwarranted. I really like the steel, its OOTB edge was better than anything I had had before it, and it's performance, especially coming off typical Western knives was mind blowing. Should the opportunity present itself, I'd say pick one up. Good news is, generally speaking, you can re-sell it for nearly no loss most of the time.

Can you find comparable performance elsewhere? Definitely. Konosuke's swedish stainless, White #2 and GS+ knives are all lasers. White #2 is really great- but you're not looking for carbon. I haven't tried a Swedish Stainless gyuto; I have a SS petty, and in very limited use, it feels pretty comparable to an HD2 petty.. so that's as close of a comparison as I can give. As far as GS+, I can only repeat what I've heard, as I've not tried it either- good performance, but feels a little less stiff than the HD2 steel. I believe I've heard that, in edge retention amongst these, HD2 is the current winner. White #2 gets a little sharper. GS+ / SS is the least maintenance.

Outside of Konosuke, I can only comment on an Ashi W2 monosteel laser- also good, and I think another good option for you, if you can find one. I have a 210 and definitely like it.

Of those options, those that you could buy right now, without relying on BST are:
HD2 240
GS+ 240
Kono W2 210
Kono SS 240

All except the HD2 240 would fit under your $300 price limit, too.

Sadly, I can't comment on the performance of these knives relative to any of the others listed.
 
Tanaka Ginsan Migaki from K&S!
If you can get one? Such a lovely blade.

It does have some spine, but not much. Less than a lot of other knives that undeservedly gets called lasers. Thanks to the super thin grind. It's very light, very nimble and my favourite cutter. I have a few lasers and this one takes the price. A bonus is the best feed back from any knife I've come across so far. Not much of a flat spot though. I had to adjust my cutting technic to suit the knife, but boy did it come to life after that. (BTW not much of a flat spot on a Kono HD2 either.)

I'd really like to mention the Itinomonn Kasumi StainLess even though it's not a true laser. It performs with some serious cutting skills. It's a middleweight that's thin behind the edge. It has a very well made convex grind and the food release is good. The thinnest tip I've ever seen. Seriously, it's unbelievable. Absolutely destroys onions. There's a generous flat spot too and lovely profile all the way. The semi stainless steel is very carbon like. Easy to sharpen and edge retention is great. The core will patina slowly to dark-ish grey, but it won't rust.

...And they are usually readily available. They are OO now, but JNS restocks them quite often.
 
Thanks all for the recommendations so far. A lot to think about and a lot more options than I thought were there.

I'm still kind of leaning towards the HD2 not necessarily anymore because I think it would be the best option, but more because I really just want to know what the hype is about. Marketing at its finest, I guess...

I'm going to Japan in the summer for my honeymoon and I'd love to be able to hold some of these knives in hand before committing. And who knows, maybe the yen conversion will be kind to me and the prices will be good. :)
 
+1 on the Itinomonn StainLess. Also, really want to try the Tanaka Migaki!
 
Are the HD2s available anywhere? Last I looked I couldn't find one (maybe it was just the 270s that are missing in action).
 
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