Sous Vide Prestarting Hamburgers in SV

Hey I don't know about you guys but I use a lot of dry herbs and spices in my burger mix. Usually I mix a pound or so of meat and then make a patty or two at a time and store the rest in the fridge. Now with most meats, sitting in the fridge (seasoned) is a great way to get extra flavor. A couple days ago I had people over last minute and I decided to precook the meat SV, freshly seasoned. I think it was @60*C for about an hour and then I finished them off on the grill, and one on the pan to test.

Anybody try this with burger patties? Any tips? My ratio is usually 2/3 beef, 1/3 pork and a little bit of pancko.

I prefer just ground beef with salt and black pepper for my burgers. I also like some granulated garlic on the surface with the black pepper just before searing. 80/20 is the ratio of lean to fat I like.

With good beef I'll cook to pasteurize at 135-137°F (depending on how much time/patience I have) and then sear in hot cast iron or deep fry for a minute to finish. Deep frying a burger to finish is actually pretty awesome.

If the meat isn't as good in quality or I'm a little rushed for time to do SV, I'll do what you do. 140°F or 60°C for 85 minutes and sear/deep fry to finish.

EDIT: I also like to stick the patties in the freezer for a couple of minutes so when I go to vacuum pack them they don't get misshapen.

nice, i didnt vac pac mine, I took a large ziploc threw the lb of meat in and rolled it flat with a rolling pin. I got most of the air out but nothing to worry about. It just came out as one large brick that I cut into segments. Personally I love to heavily season my food. Usually I throw in weird stuff to like dried red onions (though they might be shallots) from the local asian store.

I'm definitely tempted to deep fry as a I have a ton of peanut oil left over from the holidays.

I've seen write ups where people SV hot dogs. Guess they get paid by the word:scratchhead:

Never been tempted to do burgers, it seems so wrong.

Best line I've seen re SV: Look for applications where it can be useful, not just where it can be used.

Just, no.

panda said:

Just, no.

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..quoted for truth..

Lars

FWIW, Serious Eats (forgetting about any sous vide bias) seems to believe it's worthwhile, at least for relatively large burgers:
"You might ask, why sous-vide a hamburger? It's one of the simplest foods to make using traditional methods, so does precision cooking really have anything to bring to the table? Well, yes and no. For smaller burgers—five ounces or less—I don't recommend sous-vide cooking. Simply grilling or cooking the burger on a griddle will get you excellent results.

"But for larger burgers, of the six- to eight-ounce range, sous-vide precision cooking is a wonderful method of ensuring that your burgers come out with an unparalleled level of juiciness every single time."
http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/08/the-food-lab-complete-guide-to-sous-vide-burger.html

Sous-vide burgers are great, assuming you like big fat juicy burgers. There's little point if you like them smashed flat. I've done them a lot. Sometimes for the purpose of pre-cooking them and bringing to other people's cook outs, so they just need to be warmed and seared.

There are just two caveats that I've noticed: you generally don't want to mix the salt into the ground meat before cooking, because it will tend to cure the meat slightly and make it tough. You'll get textures that are a bit more like sausage. I've figured out some ways around this, but they're a pain ... not ideal if you're trying to keep it casual.

Also, you need to be sure you'll have a very hot grill (or griddle, or salamander) to sear the burgers, or you'll end up overcooking them and wasting all the effort. This has thrown a wrench into my plan of bringing pre-cooked burgers to someone else's picnic ... sometimes you can't get the fire hot enough.

When you get it all to work, they're brilliant. Crisp and brown on the outside, perfect medium-rare all the way through. You can also use this method to pasteurize the burgers by holding at temperature for extra time. Great if you want to serve them pink, but you have immune-compromised people in the crowd (pregnant, old, HIV, etc..)

Personally prefer the pattys dipped in liquid nitrogen them placed immediately in the deep fryer, then repeat.

Seriously, just put the patty in a 170 degree oven bring to 100 the place in a ripping pan with plenty of fat

Mucho Bocho said:

Seriously, just put the patty in a 170 degree oven bring to 100 the place in a ripping pan with plenty of fat

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You might not prefer s.v. burgers, but they'll be different from your method. And they offer a number of practical advantages over other methods, which may or may not be important in every situation: the ability to pasteurize at virtually any level of doneness; zero-gradient and precise doneness for any number of burgers; ability to cook and hold, and then finish a lot of burgers very quickly for service.

I usually cook burgers in a pan. But I like having the s.v. option. I like it enough that I've done it several times. In my opinion the cooking method is less important than the cuts of meat used, and the cuts used are less important than it being freshly ground.

Funny, there is a team in the first national soccer league in germany with the name "Hamburger SV".

Goalies name is Pickles?

I thought it was sort of understood we're talking about big burgers (at least 8 oz and 1" thick).

For that, SV makes sense. A lot of butthurt here about putting burgers in plastic bags :rofl2:

zoze said:

Funny, there is a team in the first national soccer league in germany with the name "Hamburger SV".

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finally a post actually worth it's salt, +1

@paul
yes adding salt after the water bath is a necessary requirement of all bath cooking

@mucho
repeated freezing and deep frying develops a divine crust...

The main use for this is to bring out the flavor or the herbs and spices without waiting a long time. If you don't spice your meat, you are enjoying it how you want to and that is ok, I will pray for you. I get good meat but meat tastes like meat and I like my meat flavored with flavors, very complicated stuff we're dealing with here. This can be carried over for kabobs, unless you like your cubes rock hard and pitch black...the traditional way. Also for someone like me where I'm not able to cook for a living getting a guaranteed result vs not is worth the extra steps.

My burgers are a blend of brisket,chuck, and short rib. Seasoned with salt and pepper, cooked on a greasy flat top, the way the good lord intended.

Chef_ said:

My burgers are a blend of brisket,chuck, and short rib. Seasoned with salt and pepper, cooked on a greasy flat top, the way the good lord intended.

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That's a great blend. Currently I'm using chuck, brisket, and shin. Also just salt and pepper. Cooked whichever way makes sense at the moment. I've used oxtail in place of the shin. Delicious, but expensive and a huge pain in the ass.

paulraphael said:

That's a great blend. Currently I'm using chuck, brisket, and shin. Also just salt and pepper. Cooked whichever way makes sense at the moment. I've used oxtail in place of the shin. Delicious, but expensive and a huge pain in the ass.

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sounds delicious, also if youve never had bacon jam on a burger, its about time you start.

I did burgers once with ground meat from shortribs. (Did it myself) They were easily the best burgers ever but when I did the math it was $25/lb.

I've SV patty before, sometimes its fun to just play with food and see how much we can toucher it and still be edible. I get that.

But messing around with long, low temp (128) cooking of ground meat is just asking for it, especially if you didn't grind the meat yourself.

daveb said:

I did burgers once with ground meat from shortribs. (Did it myself) They were easily the best burgers ever but when I did the math it was $25/lb.

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Grinding your own meat will always produce a better burger than the pre-ground meat you can buy in stores. And short rib is crack

shorties offer such good flavor in burgers, also mix in ny strip 1short:1ny:2chuck, the high price dave becomes worth it. because why even take the trouble of hand making this if you're not gonna shell out? but SV? hell nah. i like mine super crispy thick crust, pan fried in its own rendered fat, as in long sear not that quick high heat half arsed 'sear' that you SV freaks do.

Friday night I made really thick (10oz) Omaha style Onion Burgers. Soo satisfying. Medium high cast-iron pan, just heavy salt/pepper and mounds of thinly sliced onions that I squeezed the juice out of pressed into the meat. Cooked on stove top to medium done served with mustard and sweet relish in cheap toasted white buns. I'm ashamed to say I couldn't even finish mine.

One secret I've discovered to getting an amazing crust is to weigh down or press the food while searing. I use a couple different sized lodge cast-iron presses. They really increases the surface area of the food to be cooked. I don't recommend it for the whole cook as it will eventually squeeze/press the juice out of the protein. But initially, when the meat is still cold, pressing for a few minutes will it produces a much better/deeper crust/sear in less time. Works amazing with sausage too cause the press actually holds them in place while browning.

Like to see someone SV one of these. hehe

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2013/06/oklahoma-onion-burger-recipe.html

@dave

I usually don't eat out much, being in Central Florida as you are very aware of, its pretty much chains on chains and all the good places I've been a million times too. So I can justify the "Whole Foods" price tag with that but $25 a lb is a whopper.

To all the people recommended short ribs, I am thoroughly convinced and will be making a mix soon.

@mucho
I get what you are saying about the long timing, that wasn't my intention and I can definitely see how too long of a cook time can become grainy and gross. I usually use either a sauce pan or small pot filled with boiled water from my kettle to press. (I don't try and keep the water in the pan hot, it's just so enough to heat up a cold pan) I also do this with really thick bacon.
I'm game for the serious eats, but I've kind of already done that, except i seared the diced onions, folded it into the meat, rolled it flat in the ziplock and precooked it, that time I'm pretty sure I finished on the grill, worth it. Though they weren't that 'diner flat' look.

Here's my practical advantage to doing burgers (or most meat really) sous vide: if I'm just searing for crust/surface texture and color, my meat is in the pan for a lot less time than if I'm pan roasting or using the oven to finish, which means I'm a lot less likely to set off a cooking detector in my apartment.

It's outrageous building codes allow those ****** microwave fan/filter units instead of requiring outside exhaust. Biggest reason I want a house instead of apartment.

For timing I cook to 55°C (aiming for an internal temperature of 54°). Takes an hour for 1" thick patties; 80 minutes for 1-1/2" patties. Hold an additional hour if you wish to pasteurize. I find that the added hour makes them a bit less juicy and a bit less pink ... but still crazy juicy and perfectly even.

My personal rule is to draw the line at cuts that I'd much rather eat unground. That usually rules out short rib for me, and rules out some of the luxury cuts used by Michelin-starred chefs in their occasional concept burgers. But I won't try to impose this ethos on anyone else.

Chef_ said:

My burgers are a blend of brisket,chuck, and short rib. Seasoned with salt and pepper, cooked on a greasy flat top, the way the good lord intended.

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Oxtail, sirloin and brisket if I'm feeling like grinding and messing with oxtail.

Ive never tried to sous vide burgers, i sous vide NY strips, filet minon, roulades. But burgers i always viewed as one of those things that tastes better a little unrefined.

Evilsports said:

Oxtail, sirloin and brisket if I'm feeling like grinding and messing with oxtail.

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A nice perk with oxtail or shin is you get the marrow. Throw it in the grinder with the other cuts. Especially handy if any of the meat is on the lean side.

Now what if I said, SV meatballs?

I've done SV meatballs. Was a total waste. Too small to be effective. I enjoy doing big burgers if we've got lots of guests on the way, ripping grill and zero worries about under/over cooked burgers - other than that, I don't mess much with SV + ground meat.