Sauce Thread

I took my father for a 4 hour private cooking class last night with a local chef and it was fantastic.

The only time I've cooked anywhere aside from my home was for a few months in a pizza place when I was younger.

One strong takeaway from the class last night was my complete ignorance and lack of appreciation as to the talent involved in the craft when somebody dedicates their life to it.

At one point we were making a sauce to go on some gnochi we had made and I was particularly amazed and intrigued by the concept of how many "layers" could actually go into something as seemingly simple as a wild mushroom sauce! It was eye opening and it left me with a goal to become more proficient in sauces, in general.

Can any of you folks share any insight into this? Maybe some rules of thumb, shortcuts, or even go-to flavor profiles that you keep in your back pocket?

Thanks for any help at all.

Kevin.

I'm just a home cook, so far from a sauce expert. That said... my main lesson has been that everything stands and falls with the quality of the stock. Make yourself or try to get your hands on the expensive restaurant-level premade stuff (at least over here some of it is half-decent). All of the supermarket stuff is just... salted water wtih a hint of flavor. Without a good base you're just wasting your time and effort; it's like putting lipstick on a turd.

If your stock is good enough, it can basically be a sauce in itself. That's one of the main reasons why I always buy whole chickens and never parts. Once I have three carcasses in the freezer, it's time to make stock.

Jovidah said:

I'm just a home cook, so far from a sauce expert. That said... my main lesson has been that everything stands and falls with the quality of the stock. Make yourself or try to get your hands on the expensive restaurant-level premade stuff (at least over here some of it is half-decent). All of the supermarket stuff is just... salted water wtih a hint of flavor. Without a good base you're just wasting your time and effort; it's like putting lipstick on a turd.

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DamageInc said:

If your stock is good enough, it can basically be a sauce in itself. That's one of the main reasons why I always buy whole chickens and never parts. Once I have three carcasses in the freezer, it's time to make stock.

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1+ everything is in the stock.

I always have full freezer of different stock. This weekend it was time for veal as I happened to roast some nice peace of veal neck that I first deboned.

But I also regularly do what DamageInc is saying, although I do it just with chicken tights that I debone.

And cooking stock is so easy, it practically cooks it self...

Would the kind of sauce that depends on stock a lot ... best be more clearly specified as a gravy? There's so many other things you can call a sauce which are built on completely different principles...

As far as my home cook brains know, gravy is a sauce made from the residue of some meat that was roasting in the oven/pan, like a veal/pork roast or whole chicken/turkey. Of course you greatly enhance the flavor by making gravy with stock instead of water, but base is roasting residue.

On the other hand you can make nice demi glace with a stock that is in itself a sauce, but you can also make further many different small sauces.

And then you have sauces that Evilsports described, mushroom sauce that are a bit of a mix between above or something entirely different.

But in any case only when you are able to make great sauces you can be a really good (classical) cook

Started saturday morning making a nice chicken stock. Reduced it by to thirds afterwards. Was careful making a brown roux and added stock + red wine and let simmer for a while. Then seasoned with gastric, salt and pepper and mounted with a ton of butter. Forgot it on the burner for a second and the lot separated. Rookie mistake, I guess. Still ate it though..

Lars

LifeByA1000Cuts said:

Would the kind of sauce that depends on stock a lot ... best be more clearly specified as a gravy? There's so many other things you can call a sauce which are built on completely different principles...

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Gravy is (to my knowledge) a simple pan sauce made with the residual fond and fats left in the pan after frying meat. So while technically all gravy is sauce, not all sauce is gravy. Although any fond produced in the cooking process is usually integrated into the sauce. At least I always do.... "Leave no fond behind" is my motto.
But you have a fair point... I guess when someone says sauce, I (and probably a lot of other people) immediately knee-jerk into the classical French culinary tradition. They did have some pretty good ideas.

On that topic... a little tip. People often muck about trying to scrape off fond with wooden spoons and all kind of inefficient methods. I keep a seperate (clean) dishwashing brush that I use solely for one purpose: scratching pans while deglazing. Works wonders.

OK, I think the vegetarian instinct of considering stocks an oddball and nefarious ingredient took over Almost as bad as the "just substitute standard vegetable stock without further changes" instinct (noooo!)....

Buy whole chickens, the sauce will come naturally out of those carcasses.

That will also save you money and give you an excuse to get a honesuki.

"Here's protein, now flavor it" vs "Here's protein, now flavor with it", two opposing philosophies

LifeByA1000Cuts said:

OK, I think the vegetarian instinct of considering stocks an oddball and nefarious ingredient took over Almost as bad as the "just substitute standard vegetable stock without further changes" instinct (noooo!)....

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You're missing out.
Vegetarian cuisine... isn't.

good rules of thumb:
- don't use water where you can use stock (in a pinch instant bouillion is fine - at home - so fight me) or at least a quick infusion or "court bouillion" (this is a technique that doesn't involve oxo cubes or anything like that despite the name)
- simmer whenever possible, time permitting
- classical french sauces are typically build upon sweated aromats and fairly intense reductions, using this as a basic template you can make your own creations if you like
- know your mirepoix and variants (ie holy trinity, soffrito, suppengrun etc) and utilize them
- get a fine mesh sieve if you wish to produce smooth sauces, or a tamis sieve
- have on hand some pure starches (arrowroot, cornstarch etc), eggs, butter and flour at all times for thickening your sauces
- keep a variety of vinegars and wines for saucemaking on hand at all times
- learn which ingredients will quickly "cook out" from a sauce. Some things, like soy sauce, are best added (for flavour/aroma) at the very last moment as the flavour can be radically changed or muted with prolonged exposure to heat
- sauce making is about balance, taste constantly. You gotta crack a few eggs to make an omlette-- but remember to learn from your mistakes! If it tastes awful taste it again and try to think about why.
- become a master of mounting butter and making beurre blanc


cheers.

ps. this is mostly with regard to western saucemaking. like 1000cuts pointed out sauces in other cuisines are quite, quite different. Like Japanese for instance.

I always loved fish sauces (sauces for fish dishes) that were chicken broth based, so that being said the stock that you always keep around should be neutral, white (not browned) with lots of gelatin.

For japanese sauces using sake, boil the sake separately and taste it for alcohol, this is a big short cut.

Aromatics like herbs and fresh toasted spices should be added VERY last, Even mirepoix on a long simmered french stock taste better when it's added in the last 30 min.

What everyone else had added plus you may want to check out James Perterson's "Sauces" is (IMO) a good reference for both old and new preparations (FWIW there are a number of others of course starting with Escoffier). Most you may never prepare but still nice to know the morphology / history ...

MontezumaBoy said:

What everyone else had added plus you may want to check out James Perterson's "Sauces" is (IMO) a good reference for both old and new preparations (FWIW there are a number of others of course starting with Escoffier). Most you may never prepare but still nice to know the morphology / history ...

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And the french laundry cookbook is a big one for french reduction.

I would say the variety of vinegars and wines can be extended to "acids" - lime/lemon juice, sumac, mango powder, tamarind, other fruit juices..

Took me a little while to find this but here is a thread for favorite cookbooks - always interesting the diversity and directions that "knife nuts" enjoy for cooking ... and don't get me started about sous vide ... just have fun the journey never ends if you do it right!

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/612-Your-favorite-cookbook?

Do you have a pressure cooker?

I find stocks or jus made in pressure cooker are the best I've ever tried.
And being pro, there is no day without tasting a jus, sauce or stock.

At 1Bar pressure the water reaches 120°c that means you are frying/caramelizing slowly in the water.

Also I don't like reduction very much.
I prefer by far many remouillages.

For exemple I cook oxtails in a beef stock in pressure cooker then fish the oxtails out of the stock.
Note that as no humidity has evaporated while cooking I don't need to add any water to cook the same quantity of fresh oxtails.
I do it 3-4 times, last time with herbs and adjust the consistency with starch and then the taste mostly with soy sauce, Umami Push and old Balsamico.

you can make a sauce out of anything really

demi is delicious enough as it is, which is just reduced stock, veal stock preferably.

You can add wine and reduce it down with some meat scraps

Gastrique , which is just equal parts of either wine, vinegar, and sugar. its like a fancy sweet and sour sauce

A simple burre blanc is delicious too, and you can build upon it with different ingredients to add whatever flavour you want .

oh one last word of advice, especially useful making curries...

in the west we say KISS - Keep it simple, stupid. The biggest mistake amateur cooks (professional or home) make is to add add add add add add to a sauce. You will end up with crap evey time. Try to plan things out a bit so you don't end up adding the whole kitchen sink- this usually yields a sauce that tastes of nothing in particular. Major in one thing, minor in one or two others, like a university student.

This stuff is golden, to a home cook like myself. Thanks a lot guys!