Is there such a Santoku blade?

Is there such a Santoku blade, double bevel, doesn't matter what kind of metal, handle, etc., that has left side smooth so it feels smooth on the left finger joints and right side with some kind of hammer mark and maybe KU finish to help food peel away and at the same time feel smooth to the left finger knuckles?

Sort of like an Usuba where one side is smooth and other side has some "stuff"... but for the Santoku.

Interesting request. You could ask Shinichi Watanabe to make a santoku and only polish the left side. I'd be very curious how it works for your purpose....

I sometimes ask him for variations on knives myself- like smaller or larger than normal knives, or thicker or thinner.

Guessing your a lefty then?

KU on both sides should be doable. I find it as smooth as Kasumi finish when well done. You may want to include rounding the spine and choil with any requests.

I'm a righty. I have not had any KU finish experience yet, my Masakage Koishi AS is on the way to me, quite excited about this....
I was thinking just a nice smooth surface on my left finger "knuckles" and the KU finish on the cut away side to help food peel away.
And a taller Santoku would be nice as well, I think Shun has the Sumo version.

Thanks Jkts for the name, I'll ask about possibilities, probably think I'm trolling...

I just fired off a mail to Shinichi Watanabe... the website seems to have some very old dates on it so I hope he is still in operation. I did get confirmation reply mail so that is a good thing. It would be pretty interesting if he can make one. Kind of concerned about the price though...
Thanks again Jkts

NMK64 said:

I just fired off a mail to Shinichi Watanabe... the website seems to have some very old dates on it so I hope he is still in operation. I did get confirmation reply mail so that is a good thing. It would be pretty interesting if he can make one. Kind of concerned about the price though...
Thanks again Jkts

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He will respond. He is quite quick and detailed with his responses.

He's definitely active- I have a small yanagi on order... seeing if it will be like a single bevel petty...

Yours is a cool order because it is definitely functional in nature... one of a kind...

I look forward to hearing how it works - smooth slide on one side and food release on the other. It will definitely be sharp...

Shinichi responded very quickly, wow, great!
Hammerning must be on both sides or none so I asked him to price out a 56mm tall Santuko with Aogami Blue #2 and hammering on both sides.
I can imagine the hammering on one side would cause the blade to bend so you have to hammer the other side to straighten it out but why not put the blade in a form with the edges held down and then hammer...? Well, waiting for price offer...

Even if you hammered both sides, could you still polish one side- it might have some dents but would probably feel smoother with the cut- is hammering more than the kurouchi itself-a variation on graton edges?

Be careful you don't fall into the trap of telling a knife maker, a very accomplished knife maker, how to make a knife. Just sayin,

daveb said:

Be careful you don't fall into the trap of telling a knife maker, a very accomplished knife maker, how to make a knife. Just sayin,

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So true 😁

Shinichi definitely has the expertise on what works or not.

@daveb but then, if his usage method deviates much from the usual, he should be sure to communicate that to the maker, no? OTOH, I would kind of suspect "why u no get usuba" as a reply Different finishes on both sides will sabotage the advantages of a symmetric knife anyway, no?

While you're at it, maybe you can ask him to put a grater on the side... see how that works out. I heard horse files are great for this... :whistling:

Jumping in....
I have the Shun Usuba but I don't like the single bevel, I prefer a 50/50 bevel for a do all type of knife.
I have not heard back from Shinichi so I'll just wait, maybe a high polish on left side....

Rather than telling him what you think the fix should be,.would it make more sense to describe the problem you wish resolved?

daveb said:

Be careful you don't fall into the trap of telling a knife maker, a very accomplished knife maker, how to make a knife. Just sayin,

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So true , you may get " no knife for you "

If you do a symmetric edge and grossly different finish (especially finish options that mess with the geometry) on both sides, you will probably get the kind of steering conflicts benuser has been writing a lot about (your blade wanting to go different places than your edge, jamming it, especially annoying with very sharp knives not usually used with enough force to just crush your way through).

@chefcomesback I'm no knife maker myself, but I think even if it was a limit of that particular makers technique (him only having double sided hammers, whatever), it's better if he says no than make you a knife someone else could do well but he couldn't

LifeByA1000Cuts said:

@chefcomesback I'm no knife maker myself, but I think even if it was a limit of that particular makers technique (him only having double sided hammers, whatever), it's better if he says no than make you a knife someone else could do well but he couldn't

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I don't think it's the case of "he couldn't " most likely he wouldn't , at the end it will have to have his name on it , someone who takes pride in his work may not want to have something that doesn't go well with his philosophy

@chefcomesback "couldn't" referring to doing it well and with good economy and in line with his choice of technique.

In the end, literally implementing what OP wants sounds like an experimental pattern, so I'd attempt my luck with a maker known for experimental designs if I wanted it made

I would expect such a design to surprise you with the similar limits and complications as a kataba design has ...

Life, the issue is, does a maker want to risk putting a knife out there that is rubbish. Not because of his work but that it is inherent in the design requested by the client.

And no offense to the OP, but most people that request stuff like this is because they don't really have an idea of why things are made as they are. And will readily "slag" the maker offer and not acknowledge they got exactly what they wanted.

Its purely a risk in your reputation. I personally wouldn't take it if I was a maker.

TheCaptain said:

Rather than telling him what you think the fix should be,.would it make more sense to describe the problem you wish resolved?

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This.

Nothing wrong with giving a maker a functional description of what you want knife to do, how you intend to use it, etc. Let the maker turn the functional description into a design to accomplish the function. To the OP I did not mean to start a s***storm when I suggested to be careful. Sorry about that.

@malexthekid still, the only fault I can find with the idea:

The OP - who said he wished no kataba knife - would maybe be getting a knife that would be uncomfortable to use for someone that finds a kataba uncomfortable to use.

Sharpening it would mean understanding more than you would need to sharpen a normal 50/50, and you would have to sharpen with your preferred ingredients in mind.

What else makes his design unpalatable?

I've asked Shinichi for variations on knives, a thicker petty for strength, a smaller than usual katsuo hocho (great for mackerels), a large nakiri, a mini kiritsuke, a very thick bone cleaver...

I've been happy with most and anything that doesn't turn out is definitely on me.

He has clear ideas as to form and what characteristics are ideal. There are some lines he won't cross if they don't make sense to him.

What the op is asking is unusual but not really that far out- the general shape is standard - it's more about polishing half a knife- it may not be aesthetically pleasing to most, but it is uniquely functional for this user- I like that!

Sorry, long reply...

I totally get the fact that no master will want to put his name on something that is beyond what he thinks is reasonable, lest damaging his reputation. But I won't really mind if he left the knife just blank, I just thought this might be something interesting as a one-off.

I don't care for a Kataba is because I want a general purpose knife and with my Shun Usuba, each time I split a carrot or cucumber, I have to remember to give it a slight twist to keep the cut straight, don't care to do that. Maybe my knife skill sucks... I bought it to try out a Kataba and that blade is gorgeous and it was on sale for $110. I lean towards the Chinese cutting way, one knife to do all... except bones of course so my Kataba experiment failed. Honestly speaking... I love sushi but I don't think I can tell the difference if that piece of tuna was cut by a Kataba or a Ryoba, especially after a few glasses of sake.

The purpose for me is to get a taller blade than the Santoku, nice food release on the right side, nice and smooth on the left side for my knuckles and a nice D or Oval handle. Because I am cooking less as the kids are out of the house, I don't have the nice callus on my left middle finger knuckle anymore so I would prefer something nice and smooth.

Maybe I will just buy the Shun Premier Sumo Santoku but I am not big on the curved handle and the VG material and I don't care for all those swirls and layering look. The blade is $229 on Amazon so if I can't get attached to it, that would suck. I prefer Aogami of sort and the feel and sound of the blade to the cutting board is more appealing to me... strange but it is what it is. I will get my Masakage Koishi Santoku soon and see how I like the KU finish... Maybe the rough KU finish will help build up the callus.

LifeByA1000Cuts said:

@malexthekid still, the only fault I can find with the idea:

The OP - who said he wished no kataba knife - would maybe be getting a knife that would be uncomfortable to use for someone that finds a kataba uncomfortable to use.

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I wanted the left side polished but still a Ryoba.

daveb said:

To the OP I did not mean to start a s***storm when I suggested to be careful. Sorry about that.

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Haha, always good to get different viewpoints. I have purchased many knives in my life, some crappy cheap, some expensive. $200 for a knife is expensive for me because when I use a knife, I don't want to baby it and anything that costs more than that would cause me serious grief when I damage it. My normal price range is below 120.

This is the first time I really looked into the world of JP knives and its all good but damn... it was easier just to buy that one knife that was on sale that looked decent and hope for the best when I get it home. Ignorance is ... bliss.

@NMK64 and that's the thing: I wouldn't put it beyond possibility that a ryoba knife with grossly different friction on the blade faces could need you to apply your own balancing with some ingredients - just like you would have to with a kataba. That would leave you a dissatisfied customer, no?

LifeByA1000Cuts said:

I wouldn't put it beyond possibility that a ryoba knife with grossly different friction on the blade faces could need you to apply your own balancing with some ingredients - just like you would have to with a kataba. That would leave you a dissatisfied customer, no?

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Sorry, not understandings what you mean.
One side smoooth, one side with hammer marks... that would be ok for me.

The difference in polish between the sides creates a difference in friction coefficient. This could result in the blade steering to one side due to the difference in friction - just like a one-sided blade.