Botched sharpening job? Pictures inside.

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Nuker

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I have an Aritsugu wa-gyuto, and a smaller Shigeharu fruit knife (the name escapes me at the moment), that I just had sharpened. I got them back in the mail yesterday and I'm pretty stunned by the condition the wa gyuto is in. The other knife is mostly intact I put it there for reference to show what the hamon looks like under the lighting in my kitchen. It looks like the hamon (if thats the correct term) has been almost completely ground off, or scratched. I just want to run this by the experts here, this isn't normal, right? This is the first time these have been sharpened since I brought them back from Japan. Is this recoverable?



 
Nuker said:
I have an Aritsugu wa-gyuto, and a smaller Shigeharu fruit knife (the name escapes me at the moment), that I just had sharpened. I got them back in the mail yesterday and I'm pretty stunned by the condition the wa gyuto is in. The other knife is mostly intact I put it there for reference to show what the hamon looks like under the lighting in my kitchen. It looks like the hamon (if thats the correct term) has been almost completely ground off, or scratched. I just want to run this by the experts here, this isn't normal, right? This is the first time these have been sharpened since I brought them back from Japan. Is this recoverable?



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I don't see a gyuto in the photos. The knife appears to be a deba which would be sharpened a bit differently than a double ground gyuto. Was the knife returned sharp or is this a mater of appearance?
 
foody518 said:
The word i think you're looking for is shinogi. Where'd you take it?
Maybe this would be a good time to look into sharpening stones...
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Shinogi, thank you. I wasn't sure if that word only applied to the line, or that entire textured side surface. Work was done by Frank Surace at http://knifesharpeningbyhand.com I haven't contacted him yet, I wanted to get some feedback here first.
 
Noodle Soup said:
I don't see a gyuto in the photos. The knife appears to be a deba which would be sharpened a bit differently than a double ground gyuto. Was the knife returned sharp or is this a mater of appearance?
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Its a double ground gyuto, and too thin to be a deba. The knife is sharp, but not like when new, and looks like it pissed off a belt grinder in a dark alley.
 
I think the way they have been sharpened is technically more correct than what the factory put on originally :) They have just been sharpened, not refinished.

The small knife is a kawamuki.
 
I would second the idea of picking up some stones and learning yourself. If not, there are plenty of vendors here on KKF who offer reliable sharpening services, just fyi.
Obviously, I cannot speak to the skill of this particular company but broadly speaking I personally would not expect an average sharpening business in the US to correctly sharpen Japanese knives, especially single bevels, nor to leave them with a respectable level of finish unless otherwise proven.
 
@Nuker no belt grinder in a dark alley. The mottled look on the kireba is what happens when you work a hand-forged knife that isn't used to that treatment on a bench stone. The sharpener could have ground it down to be as even as on the kawamuki, but should have asked you before doing that since that would change the behaviour of the knife more than necessary.
 
It's hard to tell from the pics, but I don't see any concerning damage. It appears to be a poor thinning job. If the guy sharpened by hand with stones, it is unlikely to have any bad overgrinds. Not all professional sharpeners know how to approach japanese style knives. Get some stones and look up a tutorial on this site for smoothing out the blade road and sharpening single bevel knives. Money is better spent that way and then you never have to send it out. Otherwise, there are a number of vendors here that can square you away and do high quality work.
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
@Nuker no belt grinder in a dark alley. The mottled look on the kireba is what happens when you work a hand-forged knife that isn't used to that treatment on a bench stone. The sharpener could have ground it down to be as even as on the kawamuki, but should have asked you before doing that since that would change the behaviour of the knife more than necessary.
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Ok thats good to know. It just seemed really strange that the knife used to be textured on the edges but is now smooth, polished even.
 
I second the idea of getting some stones. Not too hard to learn, especially on white steel (FWIW, I wouldn't have recommended learning on an A-Type)
 
Looks like he didn't really bother following the curvature to the tip on the wide bevel portion, lots of the surface area not abraded at all. Nuker, get a coarse, medium, and fine stone, and in not much time you'll probably manage to get your blade looking better than that
 
There are some -- very common -- irregularities in the original condition -- like slight overgrinds -- you didn't ask the sharpener to resolve.
 
This is a great example of why I charge so much for these wide bevel knives. The makers of the knives left low spots on the bevels and covered their tracks. Now the first sharpener hits these bevels with flat stones and wham the low spots pop out at you. A pro sharpener has to either ignore the ugliness as to fix it is SUPER time consuming or charge for his time and make it pretty. I never wanted a customer of mine to make a post like this so I always fixed the bevel and made them pretty, even to the extent of losing $$ most of the time.
 
Hmm he definitely didn't refinish them but that is all I can tell from the pictures. I'd say you contact him because no matter what anyone tells you you aren't satisfied. Also that isn't how I'd expect a knife from Dave or Jon but they likely cost a bit more and have a longer turnaround... if they had to refinish your blade they would charge you for that as well. It's not unusual for the first sharpening of a knife to have high and low spots and in fact it's incredibly unusual for the knife to have a well finished face.
Edit:awe Dave beat me but there ya go
 
If this "Chicago Knife Sharpener" does not fix this for you I will
 
I remember reading a post from where Aritsugu was put in a similar league as Moritaka for potential grind issues, and what I see looks like some spots where a fingerstone finish would be needed (for aesthetics) due to the waviness. This would obviously cost extra, so I'm not sure if there's really an issue here. Maybe at the tip, but that could also be a wavy spot?

BTW, I looked up this sharpener and it appears he trained under Murray Carter.
 
I think a sharpener that knew that these should be thinned while sharpening did have more of a clue than it appears, however he should have talked to you that that is what he will do and that it will, if not refinished, look like that.

Mind that the brightened spots will re-patina, so it will not look quite as disharmonic when you use the knives.
 
osakajoe said:
Gabriel, send shot of thickness of spine and one from the blade facing you
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Thanks everyone for the replies, I understand a bit more now why it looks this way. Here are the photos you asked for Joe. I agree with you guys that if I had been made aware of this beforehand it would have at the very least driven me here to do some research.





image file hosting
 
1200 grit sandpaper on a kitchen sponge and everything will look smooth in no time? Or am i missing something here.
 
The smaller knife looks like a mini kamagata usuba. I'm sure there's a specific name for the smaller knife but thats what it looks like off hand.
 
Fedusa said:
The smaller knife looks like a mini kamagata usuba. I'm sure there's a specific name for the smaller knife but thats what it looks like off hand.
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Now that I'm home I got the paperwork out and the smaller knife is called a kuri muki.
 
yep, matches example at zknives of a kamagata kurimuki, I guess kawamuki and ko usuba ryoba kamagata (not sure about the sequence of words) would be correct too :)
 
I thought you guys might be interested in the final product. I sent the knife back to the sharpener and he did some work to it to restore it, he also paid shipping both ways. What do you think?


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