Mizuno Suminagashi Gyuto vs Shigefusa Kitaeji/Kasumi Gyuto Comparison

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Silky

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Hello Kitchen Knife Forums.

I have a question for those high-end knife users out there. While it's currently out of my budget, I am thinking of saving up for at least one really nice Damascus knife to add to my collection. I was hoping to hear from people who have owned/used one or both of these knives in the 240mm size about their experiences with them.

I have read that many members here have nothing but great things to say about the steel used in the Mizuno knives and that the grind on the suminagashi is very unique. I was originally drawn to this knife as kind of my end goal gyuto. But my preferences seem to indicate that I would enjoy the over-sized 240mm characteristics of the Shigefusa (I prefer slightly longer and taller blades around 240+/50mm+, which the Mizuno is not) despite the reactivity issues some knives have if I were able to get my hands on one somehow.

I'm mostly interested in hearing how these two knives compare (especially the grind and edge retention). I wonder if Master Mizuno is able to make a custom Suminagashi gyuto (though I can't imagine how much that would cost).

Thank you for your help as always KKF.
 
Sorry I don't own a Mizuno Suminagashi, but I do have a post looking to buy one in the BST and own a Shigefusa Kitaeji...So I can't offer a compression.

But I do know that Mizuno made a custom left handed version for a forum member for no up charge.
 
The lefty who got that one is a lucky guy ;). I've heard really good things about it.

I asked JCK as well a year or so ago and there wasn't much of an appetite to do it anymore :(
 
I own both as well as a couple of Kato's and I will always reach for the Mizuno before the others. It's the perfect knife for me. It's light, nimble and has fantastic food release. I have some pictures of it on my Instagram page. Just do a search for macphenom.
 
I own none but my decision would be between Mizuno or Watanabe...always thought his damascus looked really cool and either will be great cutters. Can't seem to find it on his site, is there still an option?
 
I do believe Watanabe still has the damascus, calls it kintarou ame, maybe based on the candy? It adds about 120% to the price of his knives, so they're more expensive then his honyaki versions. Apparently, he has said the damascus cladding is tougher than his regular cladding based on my conversation with him
 
If you mean Watanabe there is the option and it adds about 120% to the original price of the knife.
http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/pro.htm
chinacats said:
I own none but my decision would be between Mizuno or Watanabe...always thought his damascus looked really cool and either will be great cutters. Can't seem to find it on his site, is there still an option?
Click to expand...
 
I know what you mean, navigating his website is an adventure, I bookmark everything I find interesting or that I think could be useful in the future because finding this list again took more than 20 min of going in circles lol.
chinacats said:
Yep, thanks...I somehow couldn't find the pricelist without your link.
Click to expand...
 
It really comes down to size. You are correct about the Miz being on the small side. They are similar otherwise.

I've never really noticed the taste transfer with the Shig but others have mentioned something about it. IMO both are great knives.

I'm assuming the Shig would have a wa handle. Their Western handles suck and need immediate replacing.

If size matters and you like them bigger the Shig would be more appropriate. The Miz is probably my smallest 240 gyuto. I have larger 240s or 270s I can use when necessary so the size doesn't bother me. Bottom line is that I've bought and sold a whole lot of knives over the years but I would never sell my Miz. The Shig is gone. (So is the Kramer if that tells you something.)
 
Revisiting this thread. I have Shigs now, and all kinds of stuff. I have a miz suminagashi 240. Gorgeous. Thin. Really thin. Very subdued dammy pattern. I also have a blue 1 dx 240 Mizuno gyuto. It is thicker. But @bigkev2828 thinned the mess out of it. It started as a ‘cosmetic shinogi”... now it has a real one. Best cutter I own. They are both actually 230-ish at the edge, very very similar pattern. Both have a good flat spot, usable tip. Handles are fine (Cody Paul @gingerninjaabq actually re handled the suminagashi). F&F is not Shig or Kato..or even Toyama. Probably equal to Watanabe (just thinking San mai clad / blue core). But Mizuno is definitely bad ass, and the Damascus is the top Dawg. Here are the Mizzes: https://photos.app.goo.gl/FYMEYOiPXelDYc863
 
ashy2classy said:
Sweet! How do the two Miz compare? I plan to get one eventually, but haven't decided which. I really want a suminagashi!
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It’s just a budget thing, for one. The suminagashi is more than triple the cost of the kasumi. And (IMHO) the kasumi needs thinning OOTB. There are some pretty well respected knife folks that think of the suminagashi as one of the “ones you have to have”. I think the kasumi has lots of competition. YMMV
 
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I looked at this one a few years ago when it was half the price, too many better value options out there now.
 
Chicagohawkie said:
I looked at this one a few years ago when it was half the price, too many better value options out there now.
Click to expand...

maybe, yes.

but I have gone through a bunch of knives, and on paper the Miz sumi may seem overpriced, but in hand and on boards it's something else. For me the value is justified based on how it handles.
 
Here is my take, from a home cook who also considers himself a novice. And I’m not the best at redacting my thoughts

Very different knives, down to the handle

The Miz honyaki white 2: it’s thicker and has more weight, so the balance is further up front, taller too, on fresh hands this feels more like a workhorse. The grind is totally different with noticeably more assymetry, right hand biased. On the boards there is a solid thud but not as controlled since I feel it relies on its weight and height, grip is further back

Tip is lower and just a tiny bit flatter.

But do feel I have to be more careful with edge.

It comes with one of the best d handles ever

Suminagashi: thinner lighter and not as tall, not by a lot but noticeable.

Tip is a bit higher so style changes, but also thinner. The profile is more flexible, it can do more things imo.

Perfect balance so it can do more controlled cuts, more finesse, more technical I guess. I find myself watching it do more of nimble cut and simpler... rather than with honyaki where it’s a bit of a brute.

This is gonna sound cheesy, but another way of looking at it is i admire the elegance and flawless ness of the Sumi vs the power and might of the Honyaki. That being said they both need a tiny more technique and finesse than a workhorse.

If they were not so expensive now I’ll prob order a whole set of each, 180, 240, 270

Sumi gets sharper and it’s obviously easier to sharpen and maintain, so this also adds value


Worth noting that I didn’t get either at current retail price, so my impressions are also weighted against that value, however now I evaluate them and use them based on their current, perceived value to me. This probably doesn’t make much sense and may sound contradictory; as knives go up cost while performance stays the same well, it may change perspective. But at the end of the day it’s how it feels for you and how it transfers to your hands.

They do run a bit short by 10mm or so.
 
labor of love said:
Thanks for the description. Why does suminagashi get sharper?
Click to expand...

Couldn’t tell you why

Too many variables: stones, metal, etc, could also be that I can sharpen it much better than a honyaki ? I find honyaki harder to sharpen, just needing more work.
The Sumi, in my hands, is razor sharp.

Would be curious to have Jon sharpen both at the same time and see how they compare
 
Anton said:
Here is my take, from a home cook who also considers himself a novice. And I’m not the best at redacting my thoughts

Very different knives, down to the handle

The Miz honyaki white 2: it’s thicker and has more weight, so the balance is further up front, taller too, on fresh hands this feels more like a workhorse. The grind is totally different with noticeably more assymetry, right hand biased. On the boards there is a solid thud but not as controlled since I feel it relies on its weight and height, grip is further back

Tip is lower and just a tiny bit flatter.

But do feel I have to be more careful with edge.

It comes with one of the best d handles ever

Suminagashi: thinner lighter and not as tall, not by a lot but noticeable.

Tip is a bit higher so style changes, but also thinner. The profile is more flexible, it can do more things imo.

Perfect balance so it can do more controlled cuts, more finesse, more technical I guess. I find myself watching it do more of nimble cut and simpler... rather than with honyaki where it’s a bit of a brute.

This is gonna sound cheesy, but another way of looking at it is i admire the elegance and flawless ness of the Sumi vs the power and might of the Honyaki. That being said they both need a tiny more technique and finesse than a workhorse.

If they were not so expensive now I’ll prob order a whole set of each, 180, 240, 270

Sumi gets sharper and it’s obviously easier to sharpen and maintain, so this also adds value


Worth noting that I didn’t get either at current retail price, so my impressions are also weighted against that value, however now I evaluate them and use them based on their current, perceived value to me. This probably doesn’t make much sense and may sound contradictory; as knives go up cost while performance stays the same well, it may change perspective. But at the end of the day it’s how it feels for you and how it transfers to your hands.

They do run a bit short by 10mm or so.
Click to expand...

Awesome comparison! Thanks for taking the time to post. Based on your comments I would never describe you as a novice. In a relative sense maybe, but compared to me, you're no novice. :biggrin:

Thanks again!
 
I have owned both knives, out of all the knives that I have sold over the years the Mizuno Suminagashi is the one that I most regret selling along with a Billipp Gyuto, the Mizuno is an amazing performer and the blue steel gets wicked sharp and the HT is amazing, I lent this knife to Huw for a while and he was also suitably impressed, will probably buy another at some stage.
 
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