Help me chose a 210 gyuto

What country are you in?
-Canada


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
-Gyuto

Are you right or left handed?
-Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
-Basic Wa handle

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
-210ish

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
-Stainless clad or stainless. Love high carbon but this knife will be shared with the significant other who doesn't quite have the discipline to look after a carbon blade.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
-+/- $200USD...+/-$275CAD


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

-Home use. Every. Day.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
-Veggie destroying machine, portioning boneless proteins, typical chef knife work

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Global G2 gyuto

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
-I use variations of a pinch grip depending on the task at hand...I do "choke up" on my knives a bit.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
-I almost always use push cutting up-and-down chopping motions. Extremely little rocking (herbs usually).

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
-Looking for: better edge retention, easier deburring, thinner behind the edge, hate the global handle, much prefer octagonal or D shaped wa.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
-Not really picky ok aesthetics, don't care for Damascus or sand blasted patterns or anything flashy. Need a humble working knife.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
-I prefer gyutos on the lighter side of things, never tried a laser but open to that option

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
-Im a competent sharpener, I always put my own edge on my knives, but over the Global I'd love less wedging in hard items.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
-Not used in a pro environment so edge retention realistically will be decent as it won't go through cases of potatoes or onions on a daily basis. Right now my Global stays useable for almost a month before requiring the stones.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
-Mainky soft synthetic

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
-Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
-Always, but that's for a different thread.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
$200usd is the absolute max I can go. Used is also an open option for me.

Thanks in advance!

I'm going through the same process as you. Ditching a global that currently subs in when I'm doing tons of acidic prep and just don't want to do the carbon wipe down thing. Though I'm after a 240 and admittedly letting my budget ride a bit higher.

That said, these two are on my list, have great reviews, and seem to fit your needs:

* http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-ginsan-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-with-ebony-handle/
* http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-stainless-kasumi-210mm-wa-gyuto/

Thanks for the two suggestions! The Itinomonn is rather interesting. Can't believe I haven't looked into JNS, being in North America I never gave it a second look, until now.

The Itinomonn is really very nice, cuts great and sharpens too easy.. Feels almost like carbon on the stones..

Lars

StonedEdge said:

Thanks for the two suggestions! The Itinomonn is rather interesting. Can't believe I haven't looked into JNS, being in North America I never gave it a second look, until now.

Click to expand...

Sure thing! I don't think you can go wrong with either of those.

FWIW I have the Tanaka Ginsan (older version with a bubinga handle). It takes an edge better than any other stainless I have (I'm comparing it to German stainless). When I know I may not take as much care with cleaning (long amounts of prep with many stops and starts) this is the knife I reach for and am quite happy with it.

Don't have the Itinomonn but for that price, with an upgraded handle, IMHO you are getting a great knife and with really good steel. Go to the 240 and click some of the other upgraded handle options to see what they look like. For a smidge more than $200 you can get a stunning upgraded handle with a blond horn and metal spacer.

I like this knife so much I'm thinking about getting another one with an upgraded handle and passing my current knife on to a friend.

I'll second the recs already here. I have Tanaka Ginsan in the thin migaki grind and really like the steel/knife. Handled a couple of his vg10 nashiji that I helped some friends pick up and also liked them a lot--the grind is supposed to be similar between both wide bevel/nashiji lines (vg10 and ginsan). The more recent from James look even nicer though, one example at the bottom here. Haven't handled this exact model, but after using Tanakas in vg10 nashiji and damascus, b2 damascus, and Knives and Stones' excellent ginsan migaki, they've all impressed, especially for the value they offer. Great maker, and great handle and finish work from an excellent vendor with the K&S rendition.

I also just picked up an itinomonn 210 ss on the bst, the first Itinomonn I've used. With my limited impressions, it seems to hold up to all the praise and recommendations around here. Feels equally adept chopping at the heel and doing more delicate tip work, good balance of ease of cutting and food release, just a really well-rounded knife. I bought it as a gift and will be sad to see it go. JNS is also a great vendor.

Tanaka's definitely got a leg up in the handle department, though the Itinomonn has a perfectly fine standard d-handle which lends to the knife a nice forward balance. Tanaka migaki in 210 and 240, thin and light as they are, don't feel too handle heavy to me with ebony, though. My 240 balances just past the heel, at the bottom of the kanji.

You might keep an eye out for stainless-clad Wakui. I own 3 wakuis, 2 of them gyutos and just love them. Thick at the spine for a sturdy, stiff feel but crazy thin behind the edge with a nice tip. I haven't used Bernal's Wakuis and they're over budget but this model or this one would make solid contenders with the above recommendations. I don't know if tosho plans to restock but they carried a similar gyuto in the past.

Ashi Ginga from bluewayjapan is right at your budget for the definitive laser, though it's the softer heat treat version and I can't speak for the fit and finish compared with the Gesshin Ginga most often recommended. Itinomonn's semi-stainless and the Ginsan, especially with a harder ht, will probably beat out that Ginga in edge retention. I did just score a Gesshin 240 in white 2 but need more time with it as I'm not really accustomed to using lasers and still not sure they're my thing.

I'd definitely eye the bst for deals while you consider your options.

Since you mentioned your SO not having the discipline to wipe down a carbon knife, would chipping be a concern at all? There are knives specifically marketed to people who are more starting out with J-knives and either use a more chip-resistant steel or a lower hardness rating. For example, the Suisin Inox and Fujiwara FKM are like this although they come with a Western handle, or you could spring for a Gesshin Uraku stainless gyuto, which is fully Japanese style and comes with a saya.

Thanks for all the input guys, I'm not really sure if a true laser type gyuto is the right tool for me. I will narrow my search down to the more 'in between' sizes of gyuto (not work horse heavy but not lazer thin either) and go from there. I do not think my girlfriend will risk chipping any new knife I get. She's usually the one reminding me that (nearly) nothing in life requires brute force lol also her knife skills are good and she gets the notion that edge retention doesn't just happen by itself, it requires a little presence of mind....but apparently wiping/drying a blade after use is much more demanding though :eyebrow: the search continues...

My vote is for Itinomonn StainLess. That knife has some if the best grind out there, excellent F&F and holds edge fir a really long time. Incredible value IMO.

Get a sukenari aogami super gyuto, a lovely midweight. You can get it from knives and stones and from JCK under the name fu rin kan zan or something like that..

Yet another vote here for the itinomonn stain-less. Best bang for the buck 210 out there IMHO. Good height and profile for a 210, and geometry is quite nice. Very smooth cutter. Distal taper is second to none at this price point. Handle is surprisingly nice for a ho wood D handle. Sometimes get some marbling in the horn.

To get a better wa 210 in a similar concept you have to jump two price brackets up to the gengetsu 210 semi-stainless.

But if someone was gonna have a 210 as their main chef knife, I would say go with the itinomonn for the extra height and length.

Can anyone clarify the mysteries of the Itinomonn StainLess Kasumi gyuto in terms of core steel? Is it semi-stainless or a true "stainless" alloy? HRC rating? Also, how does the 210mm weigh in (roughly) and balance in the hand? Is it blade heavy, handle heavy, heavy but feels light due to balance, etc.? Becoming more and more intrigued by this particular knife. Thanks!

The steel is not known, it seems similar to A2 (also known as SKD 12). But it is hard to say, there are quite a few semi-stainless tool steels out there, just A2 is more commonly used for knives than others. It is indeed semi-stainless and will slowly take patina over time. The knife has front-forward weight balance that I find very nice. Remember - the knife is on the lightweight side, so it does not feel 'slow'. It is IMO a rather agile blade.

StonedEdge said:

Can anyone clarify the mysteries of the Itinomonn StainLess Kasumi gyuto in terms of core steel? Is it semi-stainless or a true "stainless" alloy? HRC rating? Also, how does the 210mm weigh in (roughly) and balance in the hand? Is it blade heavy, handle heavy, heavy but feels light due to balance, etc.? Becoming more and more intrigued by this particular knife. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Very pleasing blade-forward balance, in part because the handle is relatively short and light. Might be an issue if you have larger hands, otherwise it's very comfortable.

FWIW, here's an out of the box/first-impressions write-up that I did about my 210 itinimonn stain-less, about a month ago: http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...inomonn-StainLess-Kasumi-210-OOTB-impressions

I suggest to not share.
Put some extra and get this for a lifetime

https://www.mtckitchen.com/takamura-hsps-pro-gyuto-knife-210mm-8-2/

I haven't done any research about sellers and prices, this was the first one to appear in my browser, or for less this one,

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tojiro-powdered-high-speed-steel-gyuto-chef-210mm-f-520/

and one more time don't share, cause this kind of steels do microchips relatively easy compared to others, but become and stay top sharp.

If you will share, choose something from G-3, ginsan(ko). Fine grained, stainless, tough. You can find it up to 62HRC I think, but 59 will be ideal for your case

Prefer western handle as well, if the person you will share dont take care of the knife