Demi glace (First Time)

Hi guys,

I have a 24 quart pot on my stove at home right now and it's simmering 10lbs of beef bones and oxtail, as well as some coarse carrots, onions, and celery. My recipe called for veal bones, on account of the higher collagen content of them, but I was unable to procure any so I used what I could find.

Question is, when I reduce it could I add a bit of gelatin to replace any potentially missing collagen from the veal bones?

I want it to turn to jelly once cooled so I can slice it into cubes to freeze.

Any potential downside to augmenting the natural gelatin?

Thanks,
Kevin.

A lot of commercial gelatin is not kosher, so there's one potential "downside."

If this isn't a concern, then the only other thing to worry about is some packaged gelatin has an unpleasant bitter flavor. Use a good brand that you are familiar with.

Other than that, there's no "real" problem. You're not going to ruin it or anything like that.

If it's only about making jelly I don't think you need to add anything. With enough time, I've even made jelly off chicken bones.

Are you making traditional demi glace (from espagnole) or a jus?

For jus it'll be fine as is. Just reduce it. We get about 10L from 30kg beef bones plus remi. It's like a car tyre when set.

I've only seen real demi glace made a couple of times. Lots of work.

Sleep said:

Are you making traditional demi glace (from espagnole) or a jus?

For jus it'll be fine as is. Just reduce it. We get about 10L from 30kg beef bones plus remi. It's like a car tyre when set.

I've only seen real demi glace made a couple of times. Lots of work.

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To be honest, I'm not sure Sleep. This is my first time trying to make it and I'd never really heard of it prior to this. (I'm not a cook).

I took pics, I'll post my process.

Put beef bones and oxtail as well as mirepoix coated in tomato paste into the oven at 450, cooked both until browned.

Put it all in a 24 quart pot with 10 quarts of cold water and deglazed the bone pan.





Simmered slowly for 20 hours and then removed and strained the bulk of the solids.

Reduced the liquid down to ~3 quarts, put it in an ice bath and skimmed the fat.

Put the remaining liquid through a fine sieve and into containers and it's in my fridge now, hoping I will have two blocks of demi glace in the morning in gel form.





If it works I'll scrape the remaining fat off in the morning, cut it into portion sized cubes, wrap each cube in plastic wrap and freeze them all together in a ziploc bag.

I decided to forgo the bouquet garni and any seasoning. I'm hoping to use the demi glace as a base for a few different sauces that I want to try making and will season it when I make the other sauces.

Good stuff

Getting hungry just looking at this thread!

Follow up, it set up nicely and seemed to work out. Next step, try some sauces...

Great, seems to have worked nicely.

Late to the party, again, but.... if this is going to become a regular occurrence, I recommend looking for a silicone muffin/cupcake "pan". (Can anything made of silicone really be a pan? I don't think so.) Freezing stocks and glaces is the one-and-only legitimate use I've found for them. Saves having to cut and wrap the blocks. Just freeze the whole tray after it's set, then pop them out, and stick them in a ziplock freezer bag. Freezing them keeps them from sticking together, and you can just plunk one into your sauce without worrying about unwrapping it.

I may be a purist, but, this is radically reduced beef stock, not Demi-Glace

ChefJimbo said:

I may be a purist, but, this is radically reduced beef stock, not Demi-Glace

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What sets them apart? curios & would love to learn

Basically, and as i said I am a purist, what the OP made is "Glace de Viande"

Demi Glace is half brown sauce(Espagnole)half brown stock(made with Veal bones) reduced by half.

In recent years any pan reduction was being called demi glace, which traditionally is not the case.

Espagnole Sauce is mirepoix saute until brown, add flour and cook roux until med/dark brown add veal stock etc,etc

ChefJimbo said:

Basically, and as i said I am a purist, what the OP made is "Glace de Viande"

Demi Glace is half brown sauce(Espagnole)half brown stock(made with Veal bones) reduced by half.

In recent years any pan reduction was being called demi glace, which traditionally is not the case.

Espagnole Sauce is mirepoix saute until brown, add flour and cook roux until med/dark brown add veal stock etc,etc

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+1 but espagnole usually has tomato paste added.

DaveInMesa said:

Late to the party, again, but.... if this is going to become a regular occurrence, I recommend looking for a silicone muffin/cupcake "pan". (Can anything made of silicone really be a pan? I don't think so.) Freezing stocks and glaces is the one-and-only legitimate use I've found for them. Saves having to cut and wrap the blocks. Just freeze the whole tray after it's set, then pop them out, and stick them in a ziplock freezer bag. Freezing them keeps them from sticking together, and you can just plunk one into your sauce without worrying about unwrapping it.

Click to expand...

Pure genius right here...Can't believe I've never thought of that. I make beef and/or chicken/turkey broth/demi glaze weekly at home. This idea probably will prove invaluable to me haha. Thanks again KKFers

Evilsports-

Really cool and ambitious of you! The only thing I would change (based on your pics) is to roast both your veggies and bones longer. I always roast both until they are very dark but not burned through (a bit of a fine line- your nose will guide you). The caramelization really adds to the depth of flavor and color.

Cheers,
rj

I learned something tonight. Glad I popped in for a look.

I don't really consider anything that's not veal stock to be demi. I don't really care if it's espagnole + brown veal stock or just an extremely reduced veal stock with no thickener (which I prefer).

That being said, this reduced brown beef broth will stand in very well in certain places for demi (read: veal stock). The beefy flavor will make an awesome espagnole, bordelaise, or bourguignone, but may not stand in well where the "neutral" nature of veal stock really shines-- like a sauce for pork.

Call it what you want. I call what OP did good $hit.

PS I always do a remouillage with veal bones. Has anyone tried with beef? Is it worth it?

I make beef broth ~3 times a year but never think to make a remouillage.

mise_en_place said:

PS I always do a remouillage with veal bones. Has anyone tried with beef? Is it worth it?

I make beef broth ~3 times a year but never think to make a remouillage.

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Yup- I make sure to refortify with a new load of veggies, simmer two days (first round ~1 day) and reduce by half. Worth it IMHO.

We do beef stock weekly and use the remi instead of water to start the next stock.

skewed said:

Yup- I make sure to refortify with a new load of veggies, simmer two days (first round ~1 day) and reduce by half. Worth it IMHO.

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Sleep said:

We do beef stock weekly and use the remi instead of water to start the next stock.

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Cool, thanks.

Thanks for the comments, advice, and corrections. I appreciate it all. I'm far from a cook and any insight that actual chefs are willing to share is invaluable!

FWIW, the difference between demi and glace de viande is not academic. They're used differently. Glace de viande is an invention of the nouvelle cuisine era, for reinterpretations of classical sauces. The versions made with gdv use a much smaller portion of glace, and then are typically thickened with reduced cream or swirled-in butter. If you use gdv as a 1:1 substitute for demiglace in a classical recipe, the flavors will way out of proportion, the sauce will be too thin when it's hot, and it will be too thick and gluey as it cools. James Peterson's Sauces is my favorite reference on this topic.

I believe that both these preparations have been made obsolete by the pressure cooker. You can make a glace (technically a jus de boef or beef coulis) with very little reduction, and very little aromatic flavor lost to evaporation. Just use a much higher proportion of solids to water. Instead of thickening with roux, as you do in an espagnole-based demi, you can use modern gums. I use xanthan and lambda carrageenan. These thicken with minute quantities, don't harm the clarity, don't give a starchy texture, and have much better flavor release. As a bonus, cooking time is reduced to just a few hours (as compared with halfway to forever).

skewed said:

Evilsports-

Really cool and ambitious of you! The only thing I would change (based on your pics) is to roast both your veggies and bones longer. I always roast both until they are very dark but not burned through (a bit of a fine line- your nose will guide you). The caramelization really adds to the depth of flavor and color.

Cheers,
rj

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Thank you for the advice. I'll heed it next time. (I also talked to my friend, a butcher, and he is opening a slaughterhouse in the next few months and will have veal bones to spare. I'll be sure to use veal next time).

mise_en_place said:

I don't really consider anything that's not veal stock to be demi. I don't really care if it's espagnole + brown veal stock or just an extremely reduced veal stock with no thickener (which I prefer).

That being said, this reduced brown beef broth will stand in very well in certain places for demi (read: veal stock). The beefy flavor will make an awesome espagnole, bordelaise, or bourguignone, but may not stand in well where the "neutral" nature of veal stock really shines-- like a sauce for pork.

Call it what you want. I call what OP did good $hit.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. My next logical step on the learning curve is obviously to learn how to make some sauces out of my reduction. I've been tentative to try anything before I have a modicum of knowledge in this area so I am cramming. I'm going to aim for a bordelaise to begin with.