• If you have bought, sold or gained information from our Classifieds, please donate to Kitchen Knife Forums and give back.

    You can become a Supporting Member which comes with a decal or just click here to donate.

180mm or 195mn Kato Gyuto (Kiyoshi Kato)

Miura knives
Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
fatboylim

fatboylim

Senior Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
1,070
Reaction score
141
Fatboy, 180 gyuto's in WH version are extraordinarily rare, even in Kato terms. That's a size I've been after for years to add to my 180 petty, 180 Nakiri, 210 & 240 WH Kato's. I can't remember even seeing one on the "show new buy..." thread.
 
Mucho Bocho said:
Fatboy, 180 gyuto's in WH version are extraordinarily rare, even in Kato terms. That's a size I've been after for years to add to my 180 petty, 180 Nakiri, 210 & 240 WH Kato's. I can't remember even seeing one on the "show new buy..." thread.
Click to expand...

Damn it! I suppose the 195mm Gyuto is rare too?
 
They are around. I have one, so there must be others from around that time (2015?)
Worth pursuing as it's one of my most used knives for smaller prep, and a real pleasure to cut with.
Good luck!
J :)
 
Mucho Bocho said:
Fatboy, 180 gyuto's in WH version are extraordinarily rare, even in Kato terms. That's a size I've been after for years to add to my 180 petty, 180 Nakiri, 210 & 240 WH Kato's. I can't remember even seeing one on the "show new buy..." thread.
Click to expand...

Really.. someone actually told me today they have one
 
I recall seeing a 180 wh on BST awhile ago, i think ger was selling it.

Once had a 195 standard and if I had to make do with a single knife for a meal prep that'd be it. I'm a home user so my situation may not apply to you, but it was big enough for most board tasks and small enough to use as a petty too. Iirc it was about 187mm heel to tip and somewhere around 43mm at the heel.

682D4596-604E-4BA7-9E76-23E2B6B6F1B4_zpshq6h3jvn.jpg


I sold it for a lot less than I could have, so I hope that the new owner will cherish it and not profiteer off of it.

Good luck with your search FBL
 
Great to hear they are around. This would be my daily knife! I think all I would need is a 240 Gyuto, cleaver/210 Nakiri and this 180-195 Gyuto!
 
aboynamedsuita said:
I recall seeing a 180 wh on BST awhile ago, i think ger was selling it.

Once had a 195 standard and if I had to make do with a single knife for a meal prep that'd be it. I'm a home user so my situation may not apply to you, but it was big enough for most board tasks and small enough to use as a petty too. Iirc it was about 187mm heel to tip and somewhere around 43mm at the heel.

682D4596-604E-4BA7-9E76-23E2B6B6F1B4_zpshq6h3jvn.jpg


I sold it for a lot less than I could have, so I hope that the new owner will cherish it and not profiteer off of it.

Good luck with your search FBL
Click to expand...

hehe didn't know you sold this one! :p
 
LucasFur said:
I am really having a hard time understanding the KATO hype.
Click to expand...

For me it suits the style of knife I enjoy. Also, it really does get screaming sharp on the JNS Workhorse Nakiri I just received.

Have you tried the standard or Workhorse Katos? Most interested in your experience with Katos LucasFur.
 
LucasFur said:
I am really having a hard time understanding the KATO hype.
Click to expand...

It's the enjoyment of having a swordsmith make your kitchen knife and it has a thick spine with a thin edge and the blade is stiff and seems to take a keen edge. Having said that, Teruyasu Fujiwara is the same type.

fatboylim said:
For me it suits the style of knife I enjoy. Also, it really does get screaming sharp on the JNS Workhorse Nakiri I just received.

Have you tried the standard or Workhorse Katos? Most interested in your experience with Katos LucasFur.
Click to expand...

For me, there are just as good cutters if not better but comes with their own characteristics. I love my Denka (thinner blade and thinner behind the edge but just as stiff and gets really really sharp) so far but will still be keeping my katos :D for the collection. The TF Denkas are probably the most under hyped knives imo partly due to the way they are finished but after visiting watanabe san I understand the reasoning behind the way they are finished and their business model.
 
inzite said:
It's the enjoyment of having a swordsmith make your kitchen knife and it has a thick spine with a thin edge and the blade is stiff and seems to take a keen edge. Having said that, Teruyasu Fujiwara is the same type.



For me, there are just as good cutters if not better but comes with their own characteristics. I love my Denka (thinner blade and thinner behind the edge but just as stiff and gets really really sharp) so far but will still be keeping my katos :D for the collection.
Click to expand...

Interestingly my Toyama blue 2 is amazing and tougher behind the edge than the Kato. I think blue 2 and aogami super at their best make for great blade edges. The Kato I can get noticeably sharper but seems a little harder and brittle, but nothing that a micro bevel cannot fix.

For me the Kato gets a finer, harder, sharper edge and ideal for smaller knife sizes; under 210mm. The Toyama is awesome in larger sizes where toughness behind the edge is important for taller more powerful knives. I like both Kato and Toyama for different reasons. They also seem to get the best out of the chosen steel.

Yet to try a Teruyasu Fujiwara, but very interested in his white 1 knives!
 
fatboylim said:
Interestingly my Toyama blue 2 is amazing and tougher behind the edge than the Kato. I think blue 2 and aogami super at their best make for great blade edges. The Kato I can get noticeably sharper but seems a little harder and brittle, but nothing that a micro bevel cannot fix.

For me the Kato gets a finer, harder, sharper edge and ideal for smaller knife sizes; under 210mm. The Toyama is awesome in larger sizes where toughness behind the edge is important for taller more powerful knives. I like both Kato and Toyama for different reasons. They also seem to get the best out of the chosen steel.

Yet to try a Teruyasu Fujiwara, but very interested in his white 1 knives!
Click to expand...

should def try a TF, I have two denka (240 gyuto and a 175 cleaver) and it's very very nice in terms of performance - would be the better knife for all purpose. Kato is a great knife, just not a god tier knife that many make it out to be for all scenarios - and yes I have two Katos, a 240 kasumi and a 240 ku.

:D #teruyasufujiwara #denka #gyuto #cleaver by Ricky Cheong Photography, on Flickr
 
As with all hype trains, they tend to run out of control (particularly as overly keen, inexperienced drivers grab at the levers)

Having owned both Kato and Watanabe 180mm kurouchi nakiri, I know why the latter is considered the reference in the category by more than a few people.

The Kato video posted by Maxim was really when the train went full steam (disclaimer: it is a great video, and the craftsmanship first class) but to elevate Kato above many other makers in terms of performance is spurious. Some of us even remember when Workhorse gyutos sat around in the JNS webshop untroubled by overzealous neophytes. No danger of that now when they can be flipped for profit.
 
Timthebeaver said:
As with all hype trains, they tend to run out of control (particularly as overly keen, inexperienced drivers grab at the levers)

Having owned both Kato and Watanabe 180mm kurouchi nakiri, I know why the latter is considered the reference in the category by more than a few people.

The Kato video posted by Maxim was really when the train went full steam (disclaimer: it is a great video, and the craftsmanship first class) but to elevate Kato above many other makers in terms of performance is spurious. Some of us even remember when Workhorse gyutos sat around in the JNS webshop untroubled by overzealous neophytes. No danger of that now when they can be flipped for profit.
Click to expand...

Pretty much bingo, and plus, the original Kato imo is ahead of the workhorse variant as I think Kato san probably knows what is best more than anyone lol.

The second thing is about Teruyasu Fujiwara knives, imo, the fit and finish is just simply a difference among the western crowds and his local japanese crowd. From all the ones I've handled directly in the shop non of them had spines sharp enough to cut or feel uncomfortable (maboroshi and denka - didn't bother checking out nashiji) - the rustic finish is just that, rustic and utilitarian and his own style.
 
preizzo said:
I can't use my Kato 240 mm gyuto right now and instead I am using my fujiwara! Both stellar knives, the fujiwara get stuck in chop board 😂
Click to expand...

hhahaha! perhaps maybe someone can make a business at westernizing the TF knives and they will then become the next unicorn :D.
 
Timthebeaver said:
As with all hype trains, they tend to run out of control (particularly as overly keen, inexperienced drivers grab at the levers).

The Kato video posted by Maxim was really when the train went full steam (disclaimer: it is a great video, and the craftsmanship first class) but to elevate Kato above many other makers in terms of performance is spurious.
Click to expand...

Interesting history and useful that your opinion differs from others. What knife do you favour the most and what characteristics stand out for you?

I've read people going from:
Shigefusa to Kato to Toyama;
Watanabe to Shigefusa;
Heiji to Shigefusa to Watanabe;
Kato to Shigefusa;
Shigefusa to Kato to Munetoshi;
Toyama to Kato to TF.

Everyone's journey is different and I'm equally interested in where you got to. (by the way, I have moved on from middle weight knives hence the lack of examples above).
 
Inzite, I am a big fan of cleavers and that Denka is stunning. I think a review is needed once you get some time with it!
 
fatboylim said:
Inzite, I am a big fan of cleavers and that Denka is stunning. I think a review is needed once you get some time with it!
Click to expand...

The 1 liner is that it is a very nice piece of creation! :p

The fact that it is a small cleaver (175mm long and 81mm tall) is very very nice to use - no one needs a 220mm long cleaver in their house hold kitchen. It has some heft and it cuts like a beast - however it does share the same common thing with all cleavers is that the tip is not pointy and paper thin like most gyutos. It is a denka so it is made with super blue and out of the box it is already very sharp - infact when I was at watanabe san's store (yes, teruyasu fujiwara the 4th's last name is watanabe :p) just picking up and putting it down and it sliding on the bamboo mat he had it end up slicing bits off the bamboo lol. The 240mm denka gyuto is also sublime, blade is pretty thin and also thin behind the edge combined with the weight of the blade it cuts like a beast. Fit and finish is typical TF finish and works for me but some western crowds might ding it because it's not finished like a haburn or mert or dalman or a konosuke :p
 
inzite said:
The 1 liner is that it is a very nice piece of creation! :p

The fact that it is a small cleaver (175mm long and 81mm tall) is very very nice to use - no one needs a 220mm long cleaver in their house hold kitchen. It has some heft and it cuts like a beast - however it does share the same common thing with all cleavers is that the tip is not pointy and paper thin like most gyutos. It is a denka so it is made with super blue and out of the box it is already very sharp - infact when I was at watanabe san's store (yes, teruyasu fujiwara the 4th's last name is watanabe :p) just picking up and putting it down and it sliding on the bamboo mat he had it end up slicing bits off the bamboo lol. The 240mm denka gyuto is also sublime, blade is pretty thin and also thin behind the edge combined with the weight of the blade it cuts like a beast. Fit and finish is typical TF finish and works for me but some western crowds might ding it because it's not finished like a haburn or mert or dalman or a konosuke :p
Click to expand...

TF has been high on my list along with Toyama/Watanabe, Munetoshi, Kato and Heiji carbon. All of these seem to get the most out of their steel, are heavier knives but with lower fit and finish (of lesser importance for me). Other than that, I would like to try a Shigefusa Kitaeji Santoku 180 or a Mizuno Honyaki, but simply don't have the funds to buy either.

Out of interest have you tried the white 1 TF? I would be interested in a comparison between the white 1 and AS edges!

Ps: the denka cleaver is a great size. It's almost identical to my Henkel vegetable cleaver (180mmx78mm) which would be my favourite cleaver if it were carbon... and a thinner grind... and didn't roll its edge like a muffin top over skinny jeans. That Denka cleaver looks ideal!
 
khashy said:
Here you go (195 standard next to a 210 dammy):

90rNAa2.jpg
Click to expand...

Khashy, I think that warrants a UK meet up. If you are local to London, I know a couple of us here that would be interested.
 
fatboylim said:
For me it suits the style of knife I enjoy. Also, it really does get screaming sharp on the JNS Workhorse Nakiri I just received.

Have you tried the standard or Workhorse Katos? Most interested in your experience with Katos LucasFur.
Click to expand...

My experience is i have owned a 240 workhorse, and held a 210 non-WH for comparisons to other knives.
Its a great knife for many reasons but i do somewhat feel somewhat duped by the community, because i only read amazing things about the blade. It seems that its all that is talked about. My dings against it: 1. The edge retention is decent at best 2. Its excessively tremendously reactive i would say 3x more reactive then any other steel i have ever held. Its so reactive with fresh exposed steel that it will discolour potatoes, with a little patina not so much but by that time the edge is dull.
And the one thing that is amazing, just stupendous about the knife is the grind, best grind i have experienced. but that does not stay once you need to thin the thing. All your left with is reactivity, and decent edge holding. ** YMMV **

Sorry everybody. At the very least you can show your friends the cool knife while watching the maxim video in the background. :spin chair:
 
fatboylim said:
TF has been high on my list along with Toyama/Watanabe, Munetoshi, Kato and Heiji carbon. All of these seem to get the most out of their steel, are heavier knives but with lower fit and finish (of lesser importance for me). Other than that, I would like to try a Shigefusa Kitaeji Santoku 180 or a Mizuno Honyaki, but simply don't have the funds to buy either.

Out of interest have you tried the white 1 TF? I would be interested in a comparison between the white 1 and AS edges!

Ps: the denka cleaver is a great size. It's almost identical to my Henkel vegetable cleaver (180mmx78mm) which would be my favourite cleaver if it were carbon... and a thinner grind... and didn't roll its edge like a muffin top over skinny jeans. That Denka cleaver looks ideal!
Click to expand...

yeah, my mom always used that henkel cleaver when i grew up so that's also the first knife i ever used - this denka feels just right home! definitely no edges here to be rolled at 65hrc hehe. I've never used the white 1 before because the maboroshi look doesn't attract me compared to the hammered ku look of the denka. FYI, this denka is a custom order though hehe.
 
LucasFur said:
My experience is i have owned a 240 workhorse, and held a 210 non-WH for comparisons to other knives.
Its a great knife for many reasons but i do somewhat feel somewhat duped by the community, because i only read amazing things about the blade. It seems that its all that is talked about. My dings against it: 1. The edge retention is decent at best 2. Its excessively tremendously reactive i would say 3x more reactive then any other steel i have ever held. Its so reactive with fresh exposed steel that it will discolour potatoes, with a little patina not so much but by that time the edge is dull.
And the one thing that is amazing, just stupendous about the knife is the grind, best grind i have experienced. but that does not stay once you need to thin the thing. All your left with is reactivity, and decent edge holding. ** YMMV **

Sorry everybody. At the very least you can show your friends the cool knife while watching the maxim video in the background. :spin chair:
Click to expand...

:p i echo some points in here as well!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top