Fake Naniwa Chosera sharpening stone

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nslng

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Hi everyone, First of all thanks so much to the administrator of Kitchen Knife Forum for admitting me to this forum and giving me this chance to tell the world regarding some things that may happened for a long time ago, but just people don't aware.

Back to the topic, After acquiring some whetstone from Japan (Kitayama, Arashiyama and Naniwa Superstone), I got really impressed with the quality of these stone which provide very good cutting speed and very nice edge finish that I got.

After further drill in into the world of knife sharpening through Kitchen Knife Forums and other youtube channels, I always found people recommending Chosera with the product comparision. Finally I have got my 2 Chosera(800 & 3000) from Japan during my trip there, indeed I don't have that great expectation from these stone, I just thought they are just normal sharpening stone, how it could be different. But it turns out the comment from users very useful, the stone gives you a very smooth surface, hard in nature, but will not let your blade go into these stones like the super stone series.

As I have helped some of my friends to sharpen their blade, I found a lot of people knife got chipped which requires a lower grid stone to repair, so what I got in mind is to get a good low grid stone, so I try to find a Naniwa Chosera 400 for the task.

After some search in the internet, I found a lot of seller are not willing to ship to Hong Kong, or just a price is too high. After further searching from the internet, I found the chosera 400 from some web store near my country(indeed to say a neighbouring country), I place the order and after some time, the thing I am expecting arrives ~~!!!!:rofl2:
 
nslng said:
Hi everyone, First of all thanks so much to the administrator of Kitchen Knife Forum for admitting me to this forum and giving me this chance to tell the world regarding some things that may happened for a long time ago, but just people don't aware.

Back to the topic, After acquiring some whetstone from Japan (Kitayama, Arashiyama and Naniwa Superstone), I got really impressed with the quality of these stone which provide very good cutting speed and very nice edge finish that I got.

After further drill in into the world of knife sharpening through Kitchen Knife Forums and other youtube channels, I always found people recommending Chosera with the product comparision. Finally I have got my 2 Chosera(800 & 3000) from Japan during my trip there, indeed I don't have that great expectation from these stone, I just thought they are just normal sharpening stone, how it could be different. But it turns out the comment from users very useful, the stone gives you a very smooth surface, hard in nature, but will not let your blade go into these stones like the super stone series.

As I have helped some of my friends to sharpen their blade, I found a lot of people knife got chipped which requires a lower grid stone to repair, so what I got in mind is to get a good low grid stone, so I try to find a Naniwa Chosera 400 for the task.

After some search in the internet, I found a lot of seller are not willing to ship to Hong Kong, or just a price is too high. After further searching from the internet, I found the chosera 400 from some web store near my country(indeed to say a neighbouring country), I place the order and after some time, the thing I am expecting arrives ~~!!!!:rofl2:
Click to expand...

I guess the only suggestion I can give you is hope of a budget airline and go on a buying spree in japan haha! I did just that! :p
 
This is the box which when it comes, very much normal, clear printing and everything seems normal.
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The worst part begins.

How could a Japanese company can print their own logo like this ?
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And after try to put water on it, it just kept soaking the water like a soaking stone. After some honing on it. .... OMG
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I can give you a comparision with the 800.
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After first hone, I understand this stone is fake, no doubt, but how can I proof it's fake apart from it's very blurry printing?

After some examination, there is some very points which doesn't seems normal.

Can you imagine a stone that is manufactured last month?
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How could a stone with a dimension not match it's specification.
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You may say there may be some manufacturing tolerance which give the stone 2mm different for each side. ~~

But it's not the case for my other Naniwa's stone. They are all exactly 70mm
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Then I have reported the case to the seller, but it's turn out the story is bigger than just selling fake stone in Chinese Web store.

The seller is unwilling to admit the stone is fake and provided some evidence that their stone are imported from Japan. That totally make sense, The Chosera is only selling in Japan, the only way to import the stone is just from buying from Japan.

The evidence claim the stone is indeed imported from a Japanese Kitchen Export Company. http://www.handk.co/
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But which I found out is 2 very strange thing.
1. H&K Co Ltd does not carry Naniwa as their product line. (They only carry shuhiro and shapton)
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2. After I enquired about if they provided the Chosera to the Chinese Web Store. The Japanese Company shortly replied is sent after office hour(after 6pm in Japanese Time) in Simplified Chinese as if they have understood the whole thing before my enquiry.
Even more suspicious although my email is sent to the company webpage, but the reply is from one Japan Yahoo Account. "[email protected]" (can be reference to the photo below)
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XooMG said:
Have you emailed naniwa about it?
Click to expand...

I have tried both the sent the email with evidence both through their webpage enquiry service and their direct email, but after 2 days, no follow up or reply have been received.
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I hope to post this thread is firstly to tell the people that Fake Naniwa Chosera Whetstone really exist, we should be more careful when we try to purchase these whetstone from Webstore, as Chinese have already setup company in Japan which try to export Whetstone.... which is fake. This would change the idea of all the whetstone the purchased from Japan is Genuine.

If you found your Chosera is giving too much slurry or wondering why it's dishing so quickly, you may be one of the victum.

But more importantly, I hope Naniwa Company would aware what is happening and try to make more partnership in the world, so that we can have some authorised dealer to buy these high quality stones.

I hope Naniwa Company would able to see this post and clarify if this stone is just not passing the QC or fake stone really exist and maybe we have one in our hand.
 
Kudos to you for your tenacity in getting to the bottom of it. And welcome to the forum
 
ive contacted naniwa before and it took about two weeks for them to answer.
 
Could this be ... not a from-scratch fake but a reconditioned used stone or factory reject?
 
Here's some thoughts that pop into my head...

Ink stamps on coarse stones often look coarse (fuzzy) because the particles are large and not as packed as finer grit stones.

The 400x stone shown here looks normal to me, packaging included, although you brought up a good question on the size difference.

On how this stone works, it's super fast cutting but also wears pretty fast too. I have worn through at least 3 of the Chosera 400x stones but finally gave up due to getting tired of always flattening them. This stone needs some soaking time but do not let it live in the water or it'll melt away.

Lap all synthetic stones before use. You can't get a good feel for many stones until the outer layer is worn away. If your stones still have print on them you may not be using the true stone yet.

You were smart to buy these stones mounted on bases. The Choseras have proven to break easily, especially the 5k.
 
Dave Martell said:
Here's some thoughts that pop into my head...

Ink stamps on coarse stones often look coarse (fuzzy) because the particles are large and not as packed as finer grit stones.

The 400x stone shown here looks normal to me, packaging included, although you brought up a good question on the size difference.

On how this stone works, it's super fast cutting but also wears pretty fast too. I have worn through at least 3 of the Chosera 400x stones but finally gave up due to getting tired of always flattening them. This stone needs some soaking time but do not let it live in the water or it'll melt away.

Lap all synthetic stones before use. You can't get a good feel for many stones until the outer layer is worn away. If your stones still have print on them you may not be using the true stone yet.

You were smart to buy these stones mounted on bases. The Choseras have proven to break easily, especially the 5k.
Click to expand...

Dear Dave,

Your words really comforts me regarding the feedback of this stone when I tried using it, it gives quite some slurry, but your words have corrected me regarding the performance which I should expected from the stone. (Although I stupidly ordered another one .... without stand from Japan :p)

If I got the same result for the new one ordered from Japan, then I am pretty sure, it's something like this..... I will sharpen with the shapton glass 500 or the atoma 400 after those 2 Choseras end up in particles in my basin. :p

Thanks again :)
 
If I say, 2mm smaller than specifications is unacceptable in business standards here (though larger is sometimes possible).

If it were not fake then it's a defective item.
 
pkjames said:
I was thinking the same as Dave.
Click to expand...

Dear James,

I have watched your youtube channel, I should have bought it from you in the first place, I paid the same amount of money, but ~~ :p

May I seek some help from you to check in your inventory if any Chosera 400 have the following strange point which I have found with this stone.
1. the strange manufacturing date. (170327 marked on the side of the stone)
2. the very burry printing. (the logo smear even worse when It comes)
3. the size of it quite a bit lower than it's specification.

Thanks a lot if you may help :)
 
no_one_just_Roy said:
If I say, 2mm smaller than specifications is unacceptable in business standards here (though larger is sometimes possible).

If it were not fake then it's a defective item.
Click to expand...

geez harsh much. I would have thought given how I imagined these are made, that a 2mm tolerance is pretty reasonable.
 
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