Knife (Knives) for my 12 Y/O nephew?

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K813zra

K813zra

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
1,738
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Location
Pennsylvania
LOCATION
What country are you in? United states.



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in? Gyuto/Petty

Are you right or left handed? Yes

Are you interested in a Western handle Japanese handle? Western

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in? 180 and 120 ?

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) Yes!

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? I don't know...How much do you spend on a 12 year old?



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for? Veggie processing, some slicing and trimming sliver skin.

What knife, if any, are you replacing? Rada 6 1/4 inch Santoku and Rada 4 3/4 inch utility.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? Working on a pinch grip but typically hammer.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? Kind of a bastardized GG.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? Just looking at getting my nephew his first decent knife/knives to learn and grow with. He is really into cooking and comes over and cooks every other weekend. He has been interested in cooking from a very young age.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) Yes

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) I sharpen his knives, for now. Is 12 too young to learn how to sharpen?

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) N/A

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) N/A



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

So basically I am looking to outfit my nephew, who seems to have a serious interest in cooking, with his first decent knife or set of knives that he can grow with. Currently he is using some cheap 420J knives that are fairly crude but have functioned well in his learning over the past year and a half. For being 12 years old he has fairly decent knife skills and takes good care of his knives. (I even got him a knife bag and some odds an ends for his birthday.) I have no issues shopping for knives for myself but this is a little tricky for me. As such I have a few questions.

Knife length...Where to start here? A 150mm Gyuto seems small even for a 12 year old and seems to be something he would outgrow quickly. Does 180mm sound like a good starting point? What about a petty vs a paring knife? His "peeling" knife is already a longer one and seems to have no issues. Then again, he does not peel with it. :clown: For that he has a Y peeler.

Moving on, I was thinking that Fujiwara FKM would probably be the best bet. An improvement over what he has in all aspects but still fairly forgiving. Light on the budget, too. :D Easy to care for in general.

Just looking for some insight here. Thoughts, ideas or suggestions?
 
Get him a decent carbon 18cm gyuto and make him learn how to maintain and sharpen it. The small Misono Carbons are a bit narrow, the Masahiros are wider and are a bit safer with the lower tip.
 
Benuser said:
Get him a decent carbon 18cm gyuto and make him learn how to maintain and sharpen it. The small Misono Carbons are a bit narrow, the Masahiros are wider and are a bit safer with the lower tip.
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Tanaka does a 180 KU blue2 gyuto, not sure if MM has it in stock
 
khashy said:
Tanaka does a 180 KU blue2 gyuto, not sure if MM has it in stock
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I love mine. I may sell it when my Kato 180 workhorse gyuto arrives (a rarity!). Otherwise, this KU is ideal and cheap at US $65.
 
Hum, I really hand't thought about carbon but that isn't a bad idea. My first hunting knife was carbon and I was his age. I still have it too. Learning a little extra responsibility is never a bad thing. Thank you all.
 
K813zra said:
Hum, I really hand't thought about carbon but that isn't a bad idea. My first hunting knife was carbon and I was his age. I still have it too. Learning a little extra responsibility is never a bad thing. Thank you all.
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I really like mine too, bought it to try stones and reach for it more often than I thought I would. You can put a coffee or mustard patina on it to start your nephew off because it is pretty reactive OOTB.
 
fatboylim said:
I love mine. I may sell it when my Kato 180 workhorse gyuto arrives (a rarity!). Otherwise, this KU is ideal and cheap at US $65.
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Did you find a Kato? Nice!

Sorry, didn't want to derail the thread - I agree with everyone, Tanaka is hard to beat and your nephew won't hate sharpening
 
Thank you for the suggestions everyone. I think we can get by with the reactivity without much issue. I am familiar with iron cladding and patina. We have large family shindigs at the weekend so maybe slicing some hot protein will be in order so that he can see how patina works. His favorite color is blue anyway, lol.
 
At the age of 12 I bought a 10 inch heckles and never looked back, saying that I'm a bit of a maniac, Id probably go for a 180mm tojiro dp( like 50 bucks, semi easy to sharpen, built like a tank and takes a decent edge) realistically it's better than 98% of knives people have in their homes, I can't really recommend a full carbon blade for a child that young, simply because I doubt the maintenance would be there and many people confuse patina with dirty. If you could get a vg10/ginsanko 180/210 that would be stellar from tanaka. If you really want carbon, blue moon from japanese chef knives is stainless clad and very well made, plus it looks super cool with the hammer marks and kuroichi finish.
 
As someone who's maybe a little short for a standard counter height plus end grain board...The part I would be the most aware of is surface/counter/board height and then height of knife on top of that. And fairly thin behind the edge so he doesn't build bad habits of needing to force a knife through typical prep.
 
foody518 said:
As someone who's maybe a little short for a standard counter height plus end grain board...The part I would be the most aware of is surface/counter/board height and then height of knife on top of that. And fairly thin behind the edge so he doesn't build bad habits of needing to force a knife through typical prep.
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Thanks for the tips. Height is not a big issue at the moment as he can not reach the counter well we clear off my Caffe bar and with the board height all seems to work out well. In another year or so that might be too short and the counter too high. :laugh: Unless of course he sprouts up real quick. I doubt it as most people in my family are short.

I am still looking at all of the suggestions at the moment. I still do have an inkling to go with something softer such as an MV steel of sorts. I am indecisive for myself let alone another person. Thing is, he doesn't know what he likes nor do I know what he likes and I don't know if he will still like cooking in a few years. :p I think he will stick with it, though.
 
How stuck are you on only getting a Western handle?
 
I like the idea to teach him sharpening. An easy to sharpen knife and a 1000 grit stone is a good starting point. If you support him to successful sharpening, he will feel great, what is the real gift.
 
Unless he already has handled very sharp knives, giving him one that will need initial sharpening (and stones. And not allowing him to use the knife until it is at least as sharp as his current knives!) might be a good idea ....

Why not make a budget and have him choose a reasonable one with you?
 
I would say something not too heavy. So if there is an accident there is not a lot of momentum.
Best bang for buck would be a Takamura R2 Migaki 180mm gyuto. Good Value, stainless, western, but really good knife skills are needed (IMO). Maybe put your own edge on out of the box so its not such a fast lazer. Another bringing him by your local shop and see what he falls in love with. Nothing better then choosing your own knife.
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
Unless he already has handled very sharp knives, giving him one that will need initial sharpening (and stones. And not allowing him to use the knife until it is at least as sharp as his current knives!) might be a good idea ....

Why not make a budget and have him choose a reasonable one with you?
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You know, that is a good idea. We are all going to my mothers house this weekend and she has some Suisin Westerns that he can check out and I can dig out one of my Tojiro Shirogami knives. He can compare those and then we can look on the net and see where to go. At one time I had spare knives laying around such as Tojiro DP and Fujiwara FKM but they have since been re-gifted. Otherwise I would have just passed off a few to him. My lone Tojiro is my stone testing knife. :clown:

As for sharp knives, those that he has now are as sharp as I feel is reasonable for the steel. Sharpened on 1k and deburred on 2k. Those knives are 420 with a very soft heat treat, maybe 52 RC.

Suggestions on a stone to start off with? I have gone almost all natural from Omura-Takashima(if needed but typically Aizu). As such I have more than a few synthetics laying around that I don't use. Soft stones have their advantages such as being more forgiving but starting off with harder stones will teach him to be more precise but at the same time might lead to frustration early. I will not be letting go of my Cerax stones nor my AI stones but I have a few that I don't use much. Shapton Pro, King, Suehiro traditional and Imanishi.

Hah, my brother is going to love me for opening that can of worms.
 
LucasFur said:
I would say something not too heavy. So if there is an accident there is not a lot of momentum.
Best bang for buck would be a Takamura R2 Migaki 180mm gyuto. Good Value, stainless, western, but really good knife skills are needed (IMO). Maybe put your own edge on out of the box so its not such a fast lazer. Another bringing him by your local shop and see what he falls in love with. Nothing better then choosing your own knife.
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Unfortunately we have no local shop of any kind. I can not even check out knives in person. Heck, you can not even find Vic's in my area. Even our mall has nothing in it since all of the larger department stores closed down. Luxuries of living in cow town. In fact, there are cows but no town.

As for the Takmura, that is a nice knife but I am not sure that R2 is so conducive to learning to sharpen. Something with lesser edge retention would mean more trips to the stone and more practice.
 
I might be completely wrong about how children perceive those things but... the safety advantage of a heavier knife is that you cannot forget or ignore that you have a knife in your hand :)
 
I have a grandson the same age. He uses paring/utility knives in the 75mm to 130mm range that are kept very sharp. I would worry less about blade length and more about the handle and how the blade fits the hand. I guess it is what you as tutor are used to. for every cut I make with a blade over 150mm, I probably make 50 cuts with blade 85mm to 125mm. all the blades in my kitchen are very thin at the spine(2mm or less) and behind the edge(0.7mm to 0.8mm thick 12mm above edge).
 
If used to very sharp knives early on, someone could be easily taught the instincts of "If it resists cutting, examine WHY, don't plough through" and "control of a knife means that the cutting medium either has no influence on where the knife goes, or can be trusted.". But mind that you will make that person look like an idiot to many people: He will be unable to use the average household's cutlery if these become instincts :)
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
If used to very sharp knives early on, someone could be easily taught the instincts of "If it resists cutting, examine WHY, don't plough through" and "control of a knife means that the cutting medium either has no influence on where the knife goes, or can be trusted.". But mind that you will make that person look like an idiot to many people: He will be unable to use the average household's cutlery if these become instincts :)
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Hah, I hear you. Many if not most of my close family and friends have decent knives now. Mostly Fujiwara and Tojiro but others as well. When I first started getting into this hobby I tried out a lot of cheaper knives and rather than selling them I gifted them to friends after explaining that they need more care. Now I get a call when they need sharpened. Nobody seems interested in that part but that is okay as I love to sharpen. Well, my mother actually has a basic understanding and can use a stone as a strop if she needs to.
 
How far from your place to NY, might check out at Korin store or MTC trading. My prefer Suisin or Misono around 180mm Gyuto to try out. Those knife run around 58hrc get easy sharpening and last a few year. Add a knife guard also couple buck.
 
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