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Thread: Some resolution of outstanding Honu Mana work

  1. #11
    Senior Member aboynamedsuita's Avatar
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    I figure I should post an update here... I've been in discussion with Anton and we are going to proceed with some handles in due course.

    It is actually almost funny timing because the same day daveb made this thread I had sent Mikey an email with a PayPal invoice for the outstanding value of the work and materials, and advised him that this wasn't a joke anymore and the next step would be contacting Police in Hawaii. Provided that things go as planned for the unfulfilled work, I will not be pursuing this matter, and hope that Mikey will get over whatever his challenges are and will "pay it forward" for Anton's good deed.

    "A dull knife means you're a ******* loser" – Matty Matheson

  2. #12
    Das HandleMeister apicius9's Avatar
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    I met Mikey in person several years ago and found him to be a nice and very straightforward person, so I just have to assume that life threw him some curve balls which I am somewhat familiar with. Considering that I consistently overestimate my own capacities, I do not want to offer any work, but I would be happy to throw in some wood or horn if needed.

    Stefan


  3. #13
    Senior Member mikedtran's Avatar
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    This really shows how great the community is!

    As I have talked to many affected, I know this really goes a long way.

  4. #14

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    This situation is very unfortunate and the efforts to get things "right" are very commendable, but the fact that this vendors forum remains accessible is buggin’ the hell out of me.

    I’m speaking as a past vendor that decided to not renew their subscription and experienced the heavy-handed and immediate deletion of their contributions to the forum that in many instances involved far more than just selling stuff for money. This forum should be deleted, and the resolution thread moved elsewhere.

    With that awkward display of booty-hurtedness out of the way...I would like to offer materials to the cause as well. I have a ton of stuff just wasting away out in the shed.

  5. #15
    Senior Member aboynamedsuita's Avatar
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    I can appreciate your standpoint given what had happened in the past. If the forum is deleted I propose a sticky in the top of The Kitchen Knife.

    I do agree that the vendor/craftsman badge should be deleted from his posts, and all other former vendors (such as buttermilk), I think it is unfair to those vendors and craftspeople who are supporting KKF. Given that there are outstanding obligations, I see this as different than if a vendor just decided not to renew and leave on good terms. There are 4-5 other subforums I've counted where vendors have not been online in ~1 year or more, and/or now do business via other means... those if anything should be deleted as they are benefiting from free exposure at the expense of supporting KKF vendors.

    This former vendor, on the other hand, is not benefiting as he is not even answering emails or his phone (although his voicemail is being monitored because it has not filled up like the previous time he went AWOL).
    "A dull knife means you're a ******* loser" – Matty Matheson

  6. #16
    Das HandleMeister apicius9's Avatar
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    Tricky thing: He may have paid during the time his area developed and it doesn't seem fair to delete it and all valuable information. I also know that I continued paying my vendor dues as a form of support even during times when I did not even participate much here - not sure how that is for the others you mention. But maybe it could be marked as 'inactive' or something along those lines.

    Stefan

  7. #17
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    I provided a rather brilliant response to MHenry but don't see it now. I may have been moderated.... More likely my fon phucked me.

    To summarize, deleting MHenry's forum, as was typical at the time, made sense from a forum viewpoint. Mike was no longer participating, sub was inactive, poof it was gone. I was a particular fan of Mike's work and have realized that we lost a lot of good content, some of Mike's ideas that he shared and all those pictures of the bricks when we did so.

    A more better approach when someone leaves may be to close the forum but retain (not delete) content. In the cases where there is unfinished work it it probably best to leave a thread open as a means of communication between the craftsman and the community should the craftsman decide to use it. I think that is what we are doing with this sub(?).

    Do agree that the Vendor/Craftsman badges should come off when the status is no longer current. Do want to use some caution here though - we recently showed Bloodroot as inactive and dropped badges and forum only to realize no one had asked them to renew. Our bad as the kids would say.

    If I follow this one right, TJ is the only one who had paid for work on the table and he is being made well by the generosity of Anton. Bravo. Accordingly this thread is ending it's useful life and can be closed soon.

    Any suggestions on a way forward in these situations are of course welcome.
    Older and wider..

  8. #18
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    Another thread with some good commentary about the best way to handle negative feedback about vendors. I don't want to make this a place where people use it to try to hurt a vendor from a minor issue or disagreement. However, I think it's really important to have a way that people can post negative feedback in some of the most egregious cases (and unfortunately, I have seen too many of them). I hate when people have fronted a significant amount of money, sent handle materials and knives to a vendor (or some combination) and the work is not completed anywhere close to the expected date. And of course even worse when work is not getting completed at all or the vendor stops communicating.
    It's great when other good people from the forum step up to complete work or donate materials, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that the vendors just walk away from their responsibility, and I certainly don't want this community to be somehow enabling that type of behavior (even when that's clearly not the intent).
    Once a vendor takes money before work is completed or has a knife in their possession, they have a responsibility they need to take seriously, and find a way to negotiate an acceptable resolution, whether that is completing the work, offering a refund, returning a knife, etc.
    I wouldn't want a cancellation, especially if I'd been waiting for work for a long time, but at least returning money, knives, wood, etc. makes things right to a certain extent.
    I know these situations generally arrive when a vendor hits a tough spot, and I try to be as understanding as possible, but ultimately I think the business obligation of making things right with the customer is the most important thing.

  9. #19
    Senior Member aboynamedsuita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb View Post
    I provided a rather brilliant response to MHenry but don't see it now. I may have been moderated.... More likely my fon phucked me.

    To summarize, deleting MHenry's forum, as was typical at the time, made sense from a forum viewpoint. Mike was no longer participating, sub was inactive, poof it was gone. I was a particular fan of Mike's work and have realized that we lost a lot of good content, some of Mike's ideas that he shared and all those pictures of the bricks when we did so.

    A more better approach when someone leaves may be to close the forum but retain (not delete) content. In the cases where there is unfinished work it it probably best to leave a thread open as a means of communication between the craftsman and the community should the craftsman decide to use it. I think that is what we are doing with this sub(?).

    Do agree that the Vendor/Craftsman badges should come off when the status is no longer current. Do want to use some caution here though - we recently showed Bloodroot as inactive and dropped badges and forum only to realize no one had asked them to renew. Our bad as the kids would say.

    If I follow this one right, TJ is the only one who had paid for work on the table and he is being made well by the generosity of Anton. Bravo. Accordingly this thread is ending it's useful life and can be closed soon.

    Any suggestions on a way forward in these situations are of course welcome.
    I am somewhat surprised I'm the only one here, but at the same time glad nobody else is impacted, because it isn't the greatest feeling. At any rate, Anton and I have been in discussion, most recently earlier today. He and I are both fairly busy, however once we make some progress updates will be posted, and then the mod/admin team can decide how to proceed with this thread/subforum. I do agree that it would be nice if there was a way to migrate the content of some of these threads to serve as inspiration for others.
    "A dull knife means you're a ******* loser" – Matty Matheson

  10. #20
    Senior Member Anton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhenry View Post
    This situation is very unfortunate and the efforts to get things "right" are very commendable, but the fact that this vendors forum remains accessible is buggin’ the hell out of me.

    I’m speaking as a past vendor that decided to not renew their subscription and experienced the heavy-handed and immediate deletion of their contributions to the forum that in many instances involved far more than just selling stuff for money. This forum should be deleted, and the resolution thread moved elsewhere.

    With that awkward display of booty-hurtedness out of the way...I would like to offer materials to the cause as well. I have a ton of stuff just wasting away out in the shed.
    It's is indeed very unfortunate very useful information was deleted a bit silly because that material attracts more users but yes, run like an iron fist

    Good to see you jump in for this


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