Picking first stone. Naniwa 800, King 1000, Gesshin 1000?

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jstark

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I'm picking my first stone to start learning to sharpen my kitchen knives. Which are all currently German stainless (Henkel Forged line). But probably as soon as I buy a stone I'm buying a new knife, probably a Tanaka Blue 2 or something similar, maybe a Tojiro DP also for more practice.

From my current research, I think I'm going to buy a quality medium stone like a 1000 to learn on, and then buy something like a 3000 or 4000 later on, and 400 probably after that. I'm ok with the stone costing in the $70-$100 range. I have no preference of Splash n go, or soak. I don't mind either. I'm not interested in diamond, oil, or natural stones.

The Brands I have come down to in my research are the Naniwa Pro stones, King and JKI Gesshin. I don't think I'm interested in the Shapton Glass stones yet.

I've read that the Naniwa 800 is actually finer than it's rated for, more similar to a 1000. That guy on youtube Burrfection says his favorite combo is the Naniwa 800 and the 4000, so I was thinking I would do the same.

The King 1000, or the 1000/6000 combo (The better one that's like $70, not the $30 combo stone).

The Gesshin people seem to like a lot, how do they compare to the Naniwa? I'm a little hesitant since they're newer to the market and made for JKI, I'm unsure if that really means they're really high quality or not.

Any advice is appreciated, if you know if a good Gesshin or Naniwa combo stone or have other suggestions.
 
If your current knives have been used for a long while without good sharpening, you may very well need to drop to a coarse stone to really get all the fatigued metal abraded away at the edge (not to mention do some thinning)

The Gesshin stones are all quality, as with all JKI stock
 
just FYI, if you're looking at gesshin stones from me, i would probably look at the 2k instead of the 1k, 1.2k, or 1.5k... its as fast as any 1k
 
Do you think that would be sufficient for a single stone setup? I appreciate your advice, I'm heavily considering getting your stones.
 
it could, but having a finishing stone can really be helpful

Also, my goal wasnt necssairly to say which stone you should choose, but rather that if you are considering stones from me, i would look at the 2k based on what you seem to be looking for.
 
Well I'll say it. The G2K might be the best syn stone ever made. There. It's a soaker, cuts fast, feels good, good feedback, will dish - as will most any soaker.

My experience is that it's most convenient to have a mid stone and a finer stone that are both soakers or are both S&G. G2K and G6K (semi soaker) are an ideal solution but will be higher than your budget. Within your budget I like the Bestor 1.2K and Suehiro 5K soakers (Amazon). Kings will dish quickly though I've heard the newer MDX(?) is not as bad as the orig.

For a S&G combo the Gesshin 1/6K at 130 is a great value and may be the optimum solution for your requirements. I've been keeping one at work for a couple months now and like the quick touch-up it provides after a very brief soak. It would be a good stone for a home cook who didn't want to mess with permasoaking stones.

With any stone(s) you will soon need a way to flatten it. With a King you may need that during first session. Ha! I've seen a $30 plate somewhere that would probably work. Again the Gesshin plate is a quality solution.

Good luck.
 
Get the $30 king combo anyway before even thinking too much :) It's decent, you have a finisher, a second sharpening stone to compare. Disadvantages: fast disher, soaker, more optimized for carbon.

Naniwa Pro has a learning curve - while it won't need as much flattening as the king, it can load up, and if you allow it to really dish you have a flattening nightmare to dream.

If you don't let heavy dishing happen, I'd say get another $30 coarse instead of a dedicated flattener.
 
Gesshin 1K or 2K would be a great 1st stone for double bevel knives IMO fairly versatile
 
Bester 1200, because it is awesome and cheap.. Great stone to learn on.. After you have bought more fancy stones you will still use it, because it is awesome.. And cheap..

Lars
 
jstark got pretty close to taking my first post. What do you guys think of the Naniwa Super Stones? I am new to the sharpening game. don't have any particularly expensive knives, just looking to learn. would prefer a splash and go to a soaker (convenience more than anything) and of course cost is part of the equation but not the most part of it. So for just starting out in blissful ignorance what do you guys think? Appreciate the help in advance.
 
Gunslingerheel said:
jstark got pretty close to taking my first post. What do you guys think of the Naniwa Super Stones? I am new to the sharpening game. don't have any particularly expensive knives, just looking to learn. would prefer a splash and go to a soaker (convenience more than anything) and of course cost is part of the equation but not the most part of it. So for just starting out in blissful ignorance what do you guys think? Appreciate the help in advance.
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I just ordered the $30 King 1000/6000 just to get something to start out on. And I like the idea of starting with a stone that isn't top quality so I know what it feels like. I was a little tired of waiting and comparing. In the next couple of weeks I might order nicer stones (And a Tojiro DP). I'm fairly certain I'm going with the Gesshin line.
 
Compared to what some OEM stones by knife brands are like, the king IS top quality :)
 
@daveb: Does this mean you don't like Kings, or that you like the stones Wusthof, Global/Minosharp, KAI, Chroma etc put out at relatively high prices?
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
@daveb: Does this mean you don't like Kings, or that you like the stones Wusthof, Global/Minosharp, KAI, Chroma etc put out at relatively high prices?
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King meets a need, fills a niche or what have you. Not bad for a first knife / first stone but I don't like the sight of orange mud going down the drain with relatively little results. I think the rebranded POS sold with Wusthof's, Shun's, etc name on it are all made by the same place. US Foods (food service supplier) even sells one for about 20 bucks. They're all chitty gray on one side, chitty orange on other. I call it the 86 and go.

You sir should not be seen in the company of such.
 
The cool thing about stones is that you can often spend an extra $20-30 and get something "premium" instead of something that's just good. Definitely not the case with knives though lol.
 
I have no shapton glass. Is it more load-up resistant than eg a chosera? How does it deal with loading given you can't just grind off a layer easily, and neither does it on its own if I am not mistaken about the working principle?
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
I have no shapton glass. Is it more load-up resistant than eg a chosera? How does it deal with loading given you can't just grind off a layer easily, and neither does it on its own if I am not mistaken about the working principle?
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I have never really had an issue with loading on glass stones. Most awful feeling stones I have ever used, though, they work well. Quite convenient for when I am feeling lazy but if you are not diligent and let them go out of flat you are in for a "fun" session with the diamond plate. (I am very bad about not flattening my stones...)
 
If going the economy route, ie one good stone <$100, then Iminishi 1/6K combo, or if the refined edge means nothing to you right now then the Geshin 2K.

If you wanted a step above this, you couldn't beat the Geshin 3 stone set (400, 2K, 6K, and pick up the diamond flattening plate while at it.
 
I testedquite a few of the 1k stones

a) shapton.. aggresive does not clog, fast cutter..I suspect that it is a slightly lower grit. IT does not leave a decent edge at all

b) Naniwa superstones.. clogs adn a little slow.

c) KIng... slow cutting but nice for kasumi finish

d) KInd Hydra.. I like it very much.. fast cutting and the only stone in the 1000 grit that i hv played with that leaves a decent edge.. Quite passable for a 1 stone setup. For its price... it s a bigger stone

Having said that... a 400 grit stone i feel is essential in my line up.... not particular as to brand but must be fast cutter and not glog... IF the 1k takes a liitle bit too long.. i switched to 400K and once there is a decent improvement.., bite on the finger print grooves...... jump to 1k stone for a finer edge...
 
Interesting that the superstones are cloggy and slow. My Choseras are my only synthetics but are neither in my experience.
 
Choseras are really nice, Super Stones are completely different and imo a lot less desirable.. They do make shiny metal fast though..

Lars
 
zitangy said:
I testedquite a few of the 1k stones

a) shapton.. aggresive does not clog, fast cutter..I suspect that it is a slightly lower grit. IT does not leave a decent edge at all

b) Naniwa superstones.. clogs adn a little slow.

c) KIng... slow cutting but nice for kasumi finish

d) KInd Hydra.. I like it very much.. fast cutting and the only stone in the 1000 grit that i hv played with that leaves a decent edge.. Quite passable for a 1 stone setup. For its price... it s a bigger stone

Having said that... a 400 grit stone i feel is essential in my line up.... not particular as to brand but must be fast cutter and not glog... IF the 1k takes a liitle bit too long.. i switched to 400K and once there is a decent improvement.., bite on the finger print grooves...... jump to 1k stone for a finer edge...
Click to expand...

On the subject of 1K stones, I would never be happy with the finish left by any. I know the OP mentioned this in the beginning and the comment answers to that, but just saying I would not seriously consider this for a one-stone option. And yes eventually you will want/need a 400.
 
Yeh but that's what touchups are for. ;-) Really though, just the price you pay for a decent edge in cheap stainless. As they say, "The cheap is expensive."

Certainly if you go through crates a day of stuff I don't doubt the 400 is what you need to get through. But my Vic gets a high polish and it will chop and dice quite a bit of carrot and onion, swede, etc, by home-kitchen volumes, before needing attention.

But my thinking here in going for higher grit is the OP mentions moving up to good carbon, or possibly finer stainless, and there the higher grits will of course be particularly desirable.
 
Skip the Tojiro DP and get one of Jon's $160 mono steel stainless. The difference is night and day.

I like the Chosera as low maintenance SG. The same qualities making them so nice as use and set aside also contributes to more work if you let them get dished. These are what we recommend to my kids who don't sharpen has a hobby or business.

My preference would be Jon's three Stone set and add a 220 pink brick to the mix to set new bevels and rework up those awful and cheap stainless blades. I like the feedback of stones that are slightly softer and more muddy than Choceras.
 
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