Need help finding the right knife for me.

LOCATION
What country are you in?

-U.S.A on the east coast



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?

- a Gyuto chef knife, a workhorse.

Are you right or left handed?

- Right handed.
Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?

- either or.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?

- ~240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)

- more interested in a carbon knife.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
350 usd


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?

- Professional environment.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

- i am more or less looking for a workhorse where i can use it for a large portion of my prep. i got a boning knife for cutting up poultry, and other raw meats with the bone in. I am gonna need it for the line where I mostly work the grill station and have to carve around cook porterhouse stakes, lamb racks e.t.c

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

- shun kaji western 8" chef knife.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)

- pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)

- well, i guess rock because there is little flat spot on my kaji, but i slice cooked proteins in one pull cut.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?

flatter/ longer profile, and something that will take a keener edge than the shun.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?

ideally lighter, rounded spine/choil is a big plus.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?

I want something light almost "laser", but at the same time i don't want to worry about it chipping on everything.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

at least the shift. it be cool to last the week.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
synthetic
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
yes
If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
yes
Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
yes


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
I guess my biggest question is how thin are lasers and how much do you really have to baby them. I have been looking at the gesshin ginga white #2 240mm on JKI, but idk if it be too fragile. so I am writing here to get some more info on these types of knives and perhaps recommendations of other makers, I have to gesshin knifes already a, #2 petty and stainless nakiri both from the uraku line both of which I am vary pleased with, I guess you can say i loyalty to the gesshin brand. :wink:

Welcome to the forums

Welcome to kkf.

There are many definitions of "workhorse". Only a few of them intersect with "laser". What do you mean by "workhorse"?

There are differing opinions on how much one neds to baby a laser. My take is that it probably depends on a number of things. Your knife skill level and the amount of time you have during prep are probably important.

The flexibility of the blade may play a role. Some knives are very thin behind the edge but have a spine which is normal width and are thus more rigid.

To some people, the knife's food release is important to the speed at which food is processed. A convex grind can help with this but is limited on a very thin knife. An S grind is more achievable with a laser but adds a lot to the cost due to the difficulty of creating the grind.

The Gesshin Gengetsu (I've never used one) has an S grind and reputably combines good food release with laser thinness. Robin Dalman's knives fit in this slot too and mine is a joy to use. If you like Jon's stuff, you would be well served by getting in touch with Jon. He has a reputation for helping you find the right knife for you.

Another great vendor is James at K&S here in Oz. I have his the Sakai Jikko Akebono which is a thin knife with a not so thin spine. It's aogami #2, with a beautifully rounded spine and choil and a nice handle. I think it still comes with a hardwood saya. It has a subtle convex grind with good food release given its thinness (although there are thicker knives around with much better food release). It has a lovely flat profile. Edge retention in home use is great. Can't comment on professional use. It's a beautiful knife.

It might also be worth looking at the Tanaka Blue 2. The K&S version has a nice handle and a well rounded spine & choil. I think there may be some stainless clad versions coming in soon.

thanks for the welcome.

What I mean by "workhorse" is a knife I can use for the majority of my tasks. mostly light stuff. I got a hankotsu knife I use to butcher chicken, pork etc. I don't cut up much fish but I guess I would like something Fillet with, but I would not care if I had to switch to something else for that. I work the Line in a busy "fine dinning" restaurant. so ideally I want the same knife for prep and the line. which I Imagine something like the ginga would be fine for If I am careful. I feel confidant in my skills to use such a knife. I guess what I am really asking is how brittle is these "lasers", is things like butternut squash too tough? or is it a matter of technique? honestly not to fussy about food release.

I have used my ginga on butternut squash without any issues. You just have to mske sure you don't twist.

I tend to believe that people amp up the fragility of lasers beyond what they are.

Admittedly I am only a home cook but i rock chop herbs with my 270mm ginga without dramas. You just have to use the right technique.

Plus I am sure some of the pros here have talked about banging around on the line with lasers and no issues.

On the white #2 ginga, it is an amazing knife I live mine and will never part with it. I can't imagine anything being thinner but as I said I have never felt O had to baby it. Just make sure i use proper technique with now lateral load on the edge. You may just have to be careful with bone in cutting and the tip.

Give Jon or any if the others at JKI a call and see what they think based on your wants

I'm a little biased but for 350 the answer is the Gengetsu. No one will confuse it with a laser but it's thinner than a mid weight. And oh that tip.

I like a laser and the Ginga (and the Suisin IH and the Tad INOX) will take more than they appear to. But for the daily I prefer a little more ass.

Add one vote for Gengetsu, 240mm semi stainless. It cuts like a laser but doesn't feel fragile and I think it's less chip-prone than some of my others. I don't rock chop, and I don't have the other popular and highly recommended knives to compare to, but for the definition of workhorse as a knife that does everything well and goes from prep to line and station to station it fits. Good distal taper like an old school French knife, no wedging or cracking in tall hard vegetables, slices raw and cooked proteins effortlessly, great precision cutter especially for a larger blade.

lasers can go through a lot more than people give them credit for, I've used my kono hd2 240 in all situations in a pro environment and it has handled everything with ease, so did my ginga stsinless on the limited times I used it at work, that being said, I use now a tanaka r2 210 for the line which also is very good for prep work.

I forgot to ask in my previous post... Your user name, Silk Road or The Princess Bride?

bkultra said:

I forgot to ask in my previous post... Your user name, Silk Road or The Princess Bride?

Click to expand...

haha... The Princess Bride , and whats the Silk Road?

so looking at the website the gengetsu looks cool, but I guess i just don't know that much about japanese knives, but how, and how much different than the ginga / "lasers"? also there is two different steels for the knife, what are the differences?

I haven't handled either knife, so I'm working off what I've read on the forums. I think the Gengetsu is a bit thicker but still quite thin, especially behind the edge (where it really counts). I think that you will find that either knife will blow you away when compared to western knives.

I think that Jon said that the semistainless had slightly longer edge retention, was slightly tougher and somewhat more corrosion resistanct than the shiroko. The shiroko is a fairly simple carbon steel so is of course ridiculously easy to make super sharp (I don't expect that the semistainless is that difficult to sharpen) but the edge will corrode a bit more easily.

Jon, can you chime in here?