Chinese cleavers- lend me your knowledge.

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Nemo

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I've been thinking about cleavers/ chukabus. Realised I don't know enough.

Are there diffferent styles? Is stainless or carbon best (I realise the answer is probably "depends", but tell me what it depends on)? Who makes good ones? What are the pros & cons of the different makers and styles? In comparison to gyutos, what's good and problematic about them?

Thanks for your perspectives.
 
If you want to try one out, get a CCK 1303. Very cheap and super thin. Fantastic for veg and takes a keen edge. Really good bang for buck.

Don't expect f&f but I think it's a great starter if you've never used cleavers.

Don't get the super cheapo supermarket crap. It'll put you off cleavers forever
 
I'd add that in terms of style, there definitely are huge variations. I've tried CCK 1301,1302,1101,1102,1103 and their bone/barbecue cleavers. They are all different and have a different feel to them. For me for example, I found the extra length of the 1302 and the 1301 kind of messed up the balance and the wider 110x range was a bit too heavy for me.
It's best to try them in person if you can.

I also have a Leung Tim stainless barbecue cleaver which is just a beast. Far too heavy, but man, it makes me feel like Thor when I use it [emoji6]
 
China is a big place and there are lots of regional variations in cleavers. The CCK 1303 is a good place to start but I like a slightly larger blade with a little rocker in the edge. I collect Asian cleavers from where ever I travel so I have a few dozen to pick from but my fall back model is one I bought in a Hanoi cutlery shop. Not much to look at but it cuts well and has the rocker I like.
 
The CCK 1303 is a good place to start....

It looks like there is a new version of the CCK 1303 out now in stainless. Anyone tried this steel? If it's something like AEB-L, it might hold up well, but could also be a softer steel.
 
Trusted members have spoken highly of sugimoto stainless cleavers in the past, personally I'd rather go in that direction.
 
If you want to try for CHEAP look into aliexpress.com. There are Shibazi and Deng cleavers for $30 or less. It's a bit of a pain to find out things but you will pay a lot less to try. I've ordered a $30 from there to alleviate my need to buy something but it's still on the way.
Disclaimer: I know nothing about Chinese cleavers other than what I've read or been told by people.
Just an example (I hope this link is not against the rules)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/11-11-Special-Offer-Shibazi-Carbon-Composite-Steel-Professional-Fillet-Knife-Kitchen-Cooking-Chef-Slicing-Meat/32510865321.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.286.ykZgIN
 
I bought a CCK 1303 recently and had prepared a few meals with it.

I love it, it feels really natural to me after using it just 2-3 times.

The height and thinness of the blade make it an absolute joy in prepping veggies.

It even did a superb job handling a few racks of spareribs when I made dinner last night.

For the money (paid about $73 CAD), I'm kind of wondering why I spent all those $$ on expensive gyutos when it does everything I wanted pretty darn well for a home cook.
 
If you want to try for CHEAP look into aliexpress.com. There are Shibazi and Deng cleavers for $30 or less. It's a bit of a pain to find out things but you will pay a lot less to try. I've ordered a $30 from there to alleviate my need to buy something but it's still on the way.
Disclaimer: I know nothing about Chinese cleavers other than what I've read or been told by people.
Just an example (I hope this link is not against the rules)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/11-11-Special-Offer-Shibazi-Carbon-Composite-Steel-Professional-Fillet-Knife-Kitchen-Cooking-Chef-Slicing-Meat/32510865321.html?spm=2114.13010208.99999999.286.ykZgIN

I'm a fan of Shibazi cleavers. They make a wide range from inexpensive home use types to full professional grade. Given a choice I would probably take them over CCK but the difference is very small.
 
The biggest thing for me is radious of the blade. If it's not nearly flat it's unusable for me. Nothing is more disappointing than finding your cleaver accordions just about everything after paying big money for it.
 
The biggest thing for me is radious of the blade. If it's not nearly flat it's unusable for me. Nothing is more disappointing than finding your cleaver accordions just about everything after paying big money for it.

And I totally disagree. A cleaver needs some rocker in the edge to be a good general purpose blade. I have used plenty of both to come to that conclusion. I have a heavy, very straight edged model from Yangshuo I use for dicing meat but I have never found it to be useful for much else.
 
And I totally disagree. A cleaver needs some rocker in the edge to be a good general purpose blade. I have used plenty of both to come to that conclusion. I have a heavy, very straight edged model from Yangshuo I use for dicing meat but I have never found it to be useful for much else.

a bit of radious towards the nose is great. If you use a cleaver as I do, as a chopper, then a flat cleaver I find is best. I'm not the only one who perfers flat cleavers, there are many and the topic comes up frequently.
 
This semi-stainless chukka is quite ideal for an all-rounder home use, at least for me any way. It has a bit of curve, but still relatively straight. Nose can be rounded/raised a little so that it won't dig into the soft cutting board too much. And it is semi-stainless so keeping it clean is easy, but still sharpen and hold an edge like a good quality carbon steel one.


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Rush to BST for a very good deal as is.
 
I recommend not spending big money unless you have a pretty clear idea what sort of profile and size are most appealing to you. Even then, it is sometimes the case that you won't feel pressure to get an expensive one.

My first kitchen knife was a common 18*10cm household cleaver that worked reasonably well, but after a bit of exploration, I decided I liked either smaller (18*8) or slightly longer (19.5*10) models. With belly, I'm in the middle group...I like a shallow continuous curve for sliding cuts.

Chinese cooking and cook preferences are varied enough that a personal exploration of what's available is probably better than letting a few internet folks try to steer you.
 
a bit of radious towards the nose is great. If you use a cleaver as I do, as a chopper, then a flat cleaver I find is best. I'm not the only one who perfers flat cleavers, there are many and the topic comes up frequently.
Cleavers are used for a lot more than just chopping in Chinese cooking. I would agree with you about the straight edge if chopping was my only use for the knife. Like XooMG said, a long gentle curve makes a good compromise.
 
I use my Suien VC to halve corn on the cobs so they'll fit in my pot :3
IMO the curve/belly question has a height relative to cutting surface dependency as well
 
I recommend not spending big money unless you have a pretty clear idea what sort of profile and size are most appealing to you. Even then, it is sometimes the case that you won't feel pressure to get an expensive one.

My first kitchen knife was a common 18*10cm household cleaver that worked reasonably well, but after a bit of exploration, I decided I liked either smaller (18*8) or slightly longer (19.5*10) models. With belly, I'm in the middle group...I like a shallow continuous curve for sliding cuts.

Chinese cooking and cook preferences are varied enough that a personal exploration of what's available is probably better than letting a few internet folks try to steer you.

I'm going to piggyback on this advice. Don't spend a lot of money on your first cleaver.

As for my personal preference, I prefer cleavers in the 180-210 range. Height is more of a feel thing for me than a requirement, but after trying a handful of them I learned I don't like doing any sort of extended cutting with heavy 225ers. As for the profile, a not too pronounced continuous belly is best for me.

Good luck and enjoy.
 
Is anyone familiar with Nahozumi cleavers? Found them on CKTG and liked them, but google doesn't tell me anything about it...

I wouldn't touch something like that until I heard great feedback about the product. Since it's pretty new that might take awhile.
 
I have two cleavers, a Tojiro DP VG10 cleaver that is very light and laser-esque and a heavy Mizuno Tanrenjo virgin carbon cleaver. I find that the weight makes them feel significantly different. The Mizuno is significantly heavier than my regular gyutos and I found I had to adjust to the weight and different techniques to make the most of it. The Tojiro DP was much lighter, I'd compare the in-hand feeling to of a heavy 270 gyuto as far as weight is concerned, and was much more nimble and intuitive for me. The stainless is also nice on the Tojiro as I don't have to worry about wiping the blade face as much on such a huge blade while cooking, though if you like patina that might change things.
 
I just got my first one - CCK 1303. Used it for prep and on the line yesterday; of course, as I expected, since I had a new knife that I was itching to use I didn't have much knife work to do, but nevertheless I enjoyed using it. It doesn't seem that there will be as much learning as I had thought/feared: going in knowing that it is a slicing knife, not a chopper or Western cleaver, and using it as a tall chef's knife, really helped. A few of my coworkers have some mass market chukas (a Shun, a Michael Symon, and a Martin Yan) and this is nothing like those. The thinness surprised me, despite the fact that it's one of the attributes everyone talks about. It was sharp enough to use out of the box, but I can't yet comment on the edge taking or edge holding because I was too excited to wait until I sharpened it. I'll definitely be thinking about upgrading at some point, but I'll join the consensus that this is a great first Chinese knife.

Also, I like how I don't have to worry about tipping it in a tight space.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what top Chinese chefs in China use? Do they use Japanese, or are there Chinese-made high-end knives that might not necessarily show up on English web searches for international sales?
 
I can't say there isn't a chef in some fancy Beijing place using a Japanese blade but he would be a minority. High end in China is way different than Japan. When I was in Chengdu my cooking instructor sent me to a shop he said was were the local pros shopped. Most of their cleavers ran in the $20-$40 range. A local home use model was more in the $10.00 or less range. Knife skills come before high end knives in that part of the world.
My instructor also told me he had a buddy that was cooking in Chinese restaurant in Japan. The buddy had been telling him about the super cleavers made in Japan but there was no way he would believe anyone would pay that much for one.
 
@Noodle Soup - that kind of outlook makes sense to me, considering the viewpoints of my relatives and also typical income levels

Here's what I found at my grandpa's place

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