Lasers- current state of play

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Nemo

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I have used some knives that are very thin behind the edge but I don't think I've ever used a true laser. Not sure if I need to scratch that itch or not.

How are lasers defined (is it by weight or is it just a case of "you'll know it when you see it"?)

From my reading, the list of knives that I would recognise as lasers is:
Suisin IH
Gesshin Ginga
Sakai Yusuke
Kono HD/HD2 (?no longer available)
Kono GS/ GS+
FRKZ Swedish
?Red handle Takamura Pro.

Did I miss any? Did I include any that I shouldn't have?

Any opinions about the lasers that you have used (especially sharpenability, edge retention and cutting performance)?
 
Your list is accurate-but the thing that makes a laser a laser isn't that it's thin behind the edge(all sorts of knives are like that)but that the whole blade is thin, not much convexing because there isn't much room. Hence, falls through food like a laser.
 
Ryusen. Some Blazen and also VS series...

If there is no official definition, I'd say "cuts fresh lotus roots into arbitrary rounds with less than three near-accidents per pound" :)
 
Ikkanshi Tadatsuna - possibly the original "laser"
Mizuno stainless, another from Sakai.
Shibata Kotetsu = k-tip lasers
 
I tried 210mm-270mm lasers and always preferred the 270mm length. Suisin wa gyuto has better edge retention over the Swedish stainless stuff. The tad should be the easiest to sharpen but offers the least edge retention for stainless. There's ALOT of old threads comparing the differences between the brands and the consensus seems to be that they cut about the same. But I'm not including takamura or kono g1 as I've never tried them. Hd acts typical of semi stainless, sharpens quick but retention not as good as stainless but better than the shirogami lasers. Suisin has the handle I liked the most, Jon has a couple on sell right now so that's the main reason I decided to rebuy one. Still really want to try a tad though.
 
Suisin has been by far my favorite (it's also a joy to sharpen and very easy to get a good edge) but the price point is much higher. If you love lasers, get a suisin. If you're not sure, try something else? I believe they run short as well, I prefer 270 in general, but can see the benefit of sizing up on a laser regardless.
 
Ryusen. Some Blazen and also VS series...

If there is no official definition, I'd say "cuts fresh lotus roots into arbitrary rounds with less than three near-accidents per pound" :)

I don't know if I would call the Blazen a laser. It is thin but not quite there in my opinion.
 
I've had the Gesshin in 270 and 240, inexplicably sold them. And the Suisin IH in 240. With the Stefan custom handle. That now lives at Tony the tow truck drivers house after my truck was totaled and towed and the rat bastard disappeared it. Next laser I'm going to go with the Tad. Love me some Ginsanko.
 
I asked the same question, or similar, before i bought my first laser. The consensus was a knife that was continuously thin at all points and wisps through food without effort. Or something along those lines. Interestingly, I have seen many say that spine thickness has nothing to do with this. I guess it is one of those things where all lasers seem to have a thin spine but not all thin spined knives are lasers. This makes sense to me as I have many knives that are around 2mm+/- at the spine and they are very different than my lasers.

Regardless, you asked for our experience with the lasers we have. I have a Ginga and Kono W#2 and I would say that they are more comparable than not. Both knives are fairly thin throughout and have a subtle convex, not overly pronounced but enough to make them perform well enough for me. Neither are what I would consider good with food release but they are not horrible either. If we use potatoes as an example, they stick, however a flick of the wrist will free them up. Compare that to something like a Fujiwara FKM or Suisin Western Inox and the difference is night and day to say the least. Misono isn't any better either. Digressing back to the lasers I would say that the both pretty much have that feeling of gliding through food as if it wasn't there in the first place, with most objects. Spongier mushrooms seem to be my only obstacle. Not that the knife does not work well but you can feel the drag almost as if the knife is telling you to pay attention or it will come to a full stop, but never does. If that makes sense to you.

Bleh, more coffee is needed. I apologize for my thoughts not being organized.

Okay, starting again I would say that these knives are thin from the spine to the edge and everywhere in between. Interestingly they have fairly robust tips. They perform well but they are not as thin as some of my sanmai knives. This has never shown to be an issue. They also have some flex, particularly at the front 1/3 of the blade so one must take care to not flex them on the stones. That should not be an issue for anyone with decent sharpening skills as the flex is slight. Speaking of sharpening, my lasers sharpen with ease and more so than any other knife I own. In my case I suppose that is due to a number of factors. First off they are both W#2, they are thin overall but especially at and behind the edge.

Another thing I can say about my lasers is that they came with a rather obtuse angle out of the box. It was almost as if there as not an edge. I mean, they were sharp but I needed to set my own edge. Doing this vastly improved performance, or at least to my liking.

Again, I am sorry for jumping all over the place here. Anyway, I hope this was of at least a little help.
 
Is there any knife at all that feels sharp enough when cutting "Spongier mushrooms" ?
 
Is there any knife at all that feels sharp enough when cutting "Spongier mushrooms" ?

HAHA I know exactly what you mean. Shiitakes especially, I would just send them back if they were not firm enough to slice paper thin. Think I had a Konosuke HD 170mm petty.
 
granulatus.jpg


we get some pretty nice wild Suillus granulatus here. They are extremely spungy. I found Nakiri style blades polished slightly higher than the "normal" kitchen knife edge (wich is just a bit toothy normally yes?) to work very well with this sort of material.
 
Brunoising normal champignons also can make you wonder if you're using the knife edge up...
 
I would throw my Shigeki Tanaka 210mm R2 Wa Gyuto in the laser category. You can add some Chris Anderson Scorpion Forge gyutos in there as well.
 
I would throw my Shigeki Tanaka 210mm R2 Wa Gyuto in the laser category. You can add some Chris Anderson Scorpion Forge gyutos in there as well.
Thanks Rick. I had become a bit confused about the Tanaka R2s. They are sometimes described as lasers and sometimes not?

Is the laser grind specific to the Shigeki Tanaka R2s?

Is Skigeki the father or son (or other)?
 
I purchased wa r2 few weeks ago from mm and it's definitely not a laser. I think the concept of his grinds has changed over the years.
 
Well, they ARE thin (~0.9mm spine with the nakiri or the thinner of the k-typ gyutos), comparably low cutting resistance knives. And yes, they behave a bit laser like. Completely different geometry (hollow grind) from what is usually called a laser here.
 
So, there seems to be consensus that the Gesshin Ginga plays in the laser category. Both, western and wa?

And if so, is the Misono UX10 also a laser? I am trying to compare Gesshin Ginga western stainless with UX10... Thickness above heel is identical...
 
Well, they ARE thin (~0.9mm spine with the nakiri or the thinner of the k-typ gyutos), comparably low cutting resistance knives. And yes, they behave a bit laser like. Completely different geometry (hollow grind) from what is usually called a laser here.

There you go- learn something new each day!
 
@Nemo to avoid confusion: There seem to be multiple kinds of knives called Kiwi. This here is about the very inexpensive Thai stainless steel knives.
 
About the Takamura knives, There's the red handle R2/migaki/hsps and the black handle R2 pro series. I've never handle the pro series, but I'm remembering it to be a bit thicker and maybe closer to middleweight than laser. The red handle one is certainly one of the most laser knives out there, but the biggest is only 210. The pro line has a 240 size, but I don't remember the last time I saw those in stock anywhere.

If K-tip gyuto is of any interest you could check out the Shiro Kamo B2 migaki kiritsuke. I have the 240 gyuto and love it. I bought it from Cleancut and it's the thinnest laser I've seen including the Takamura R2. The gyuto is discontinued but the Kiritsuke is still available and is very nicely priced. It's a bit reactive though.
 
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