Is this Damascus or alloy banding?

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khashy

khashy

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I bought this knife because I really liked the way it looks.

The cladding has the most beautiful pattern on it that I have ever seen.

It is so fine that it makes me question whether it's actually damascus and whether it is possible to produce a pattern this fine!

The alternative I thought of was alloy banding. But I don't know enough about alloy banding to be able to recognise it.

I'm leaning more towards damascus as I think alloy banding would result in more uniform patterns, where as this is more kind of like the Kato damascus but much finer.

It's a 130mm Kiya petty. Here are the some photos:
pLQ0FoU_d.jpg

N7myjdT_d.jpg

ebBZbuZ_d.jpg

Xa6iaXc_d.jpg

y0S5TRF_d.jpg


Album link in case the photos aren't clear:
https://m.imgur.com/a/uOyVx

Either way I can't stop looking at this blade but I'd like to know how they have managed to make this cladding
 
I had a similar cladding on my "Cloudy" Konosuke.
That ain't damascus, I've been told that this kind of patterns results when former used steel is used for the clad...
 
I think it may be impurities in the steel that gives those cloudy finishes, at least thats what Ive read about shigefusa clouds.
 
Upper photos look like very good quality wrought/puddled iron.
 
Dan P. said:
Upper photos look like very good quality wrought/puddled iron.
Click to expand...

Thanks Dan.

I always thought of wrought iron as having a composite nature which is fibrous like wood. So I thought that when wrought iron is used for cladding, the 'fiber' lines would appear somewhat parallel. Like this:

a7d2f0_532da83f85d249248295a0d0b9445c2e.jpg


The pattern on the blade is not like that. Is this what happens to wrought iron when it's hammered? Or could it be folded?
 
Sorry this was the best I could find where it shows a little. Pinch zoom worls on instagram, maybe that helps.
 
Cool, I think this might be it. Very cool effect that is hard to capture with my crappy camera
 
khashy said:
The pattern on the blade is not like that. Is this what happens to wrought iron when it's hammered? Or could it be folded?
Click to expand...

Like wood, it will show a different grain depending on which way you cut the grain. Puddled iron also occurs in many grades and degrees of refinement. The first and second knives pictured, if they are wrought, are top quality wrought. The second knife you pictured is less refined, and perhaps also showing flat grain rather than quarter grain, if that makes sense? (I'm not very confident on my carpentry terms.)
 
Dan P. said:
Like wood, it will show a different grain depending on which way you cut the grain. Puddled iron also occurs in many grades and degrees of refinement. The first and second knives pictured, if they are wrought, are top quality wrought. The second knife you pictured is less refined, and perhaps also showing flat grain rather than quarter grain, if that makes sense? (I'm not very confident on my carpentry terms.)
Click to expand...

Yup, makes sense - thank you.

All of my images are from the same knife. The top two images are from the back of the blade and the last two from the front.

This is a great effect, the pictures don't do it justice
 
I meant this second knife, where you can see the different striations in the wrought much more clearly, suggesting less refinement;

khashy said:
Thanks Dan.

I always thought of wrought iron as having a composite nature which is fibrous like wood. So I thought that when wrought iron is used for cladding, the 'fiber' lines would appear somewhat parallel. Like this:

a7d2f0_532da83f85d249248295a0d0b9445c2e.jpg


The pattern on the blade is not like that. Is this what happens to wrought iron when it's hammered? Or could it be folded?
Click to expand...
 
Dan P. said:
I meant this second knife, where you can see the different striations in the wrought much more clearly, suggesting less refinement;
Click to expand...

Aahh! That's just a random photo I found. I'm glad that you think my knife's cladding is top quality wrought iron.

Makes me much happier looking at it 😉
 
Having had another look, it does actually look a lot like alloy banding.
Whatever it is, it's definitely something! (as they say)
 
Dan P. said:
Having had another look, it does actually look a lot like alloy banding.
Whatever it is, it's definitely something! (as they say)
Click to expand...

Ha! It definitely is something.

Let me try to take a clearer picture tomorrow in good light. See what you think then.
 
khashy said:
I bought this knife because I really liked the way it looks.

The cladding has the most beautiful pattern on it that I have ever seen.

It is so fine that it makes me question whether it's actually damascus and whether it is possible to produce a pattern this fine!

The alternative I thought of was alloy banding. But I don't know enough about alloy banding to be able to recognise it.

I'm leaning more towards damascus as I think alloy banding would result in more uniform patterns, where as this is more kind of like the Kato damascus but much finer.

It's a 130mm Kiya petty. Here are the some photos:
pLQ0FoU_d.jpg

N7myjdT_d.jpg

ebBZbuZ_d.jpg

Xa6iaXc_d.jpg

y0S5TRF_d.jpg


Album link in case the photos aren't clear:


Either way I can't stop looking at this blade but I'd like to know how they have managed to make this cladding
Click to expand...


Hi @khashy - do you have a link for this knife? Please and thank you
 
Per my reply to the DM, this was an auction purchase back in 2017. More than likely an unbranded OEM blade that Shigefusa made for Kiya.
 
khashy said:
Per my reply to the DM, this was an auction purchase back in 2017. More than likely an unbranded OEM blade that Shigefusa made for Kiya.
Click to expand...
That would be pretty cool if true. All the Shig/Kiya collabs I've seen were western handle and bolstered/integrals with Kiya kanji. Looks very different to their usual Kitaeji knives.
 
Last edited:
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