Looking for a KS clone

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alanhuth

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I am seeking recommendations for a good KS clone, preferably at least as good as the original Masamoto. Has anyone come up with a generally accepted equal or improvement?

I am on the CKTG waiting list for an original. Are there other lists I should try to get on? I’ve read that no more originals are coming. Does anyone know, or suspect, otherwise?

All feedback appreciated.

Thanks,

Alan
 
People said the Doi gyuto at CKTG has a KS profile. I think the next batch is coming in soon.
 
The Marko Tsourkan being sold in BST looks pretty darn close to a KS profile while only being a 225mm. Probably a better grind too. Marko does occasionally do KS profile knives.
 
The Sakai Yusuke SS has a "regular" Sakai profile. There were (literally) a couple of the KS "clone", which were thicker as well as "extra harden" (sic). Rare as hen's teeth.
 
Doesn't the stainless version have the same profile and those can still be found?
 
A regular Yusuke has a similar profile to an Ashi, Tad or Kono SS. But not a KS.
 
Doesn't the stainless version have the same profile and those can still be found?

Yes. IIR I just saw one online at Korin the other day.
The Doi in Blue #2 looks mighty tempting for the $$!

Dave
 
The Doi is similar to the KS in profile only. The grind is heavy and convex. It is a nice knife indeed but there could not be a bigger difference in how these two perform.
 
Get with marko.. my 225 s ground ks does everything so well.. I want other gyutos, just don't need them..
 
KS clones are a tricky thing, because there are definitely a few different aspects that contribute to what people mean when they talk about a KS- Profile, grind, length and balance being big players. I won't pretend to have tried them all, but generally speaking, with respect to the KS clones out there, most people will say "it's a good knife, but it's not a KS".

While every knife has it's differences, the commonalities I see posted about MOST true KS are-
The 240 sits around 255mm in length.
Heel height around 48-50
The balance point is super well placed, helping such a long knife feel surprisingly nimble
Monosteel in White #2, with a laser-style grind.

If you're just looking for the profile, it is utilized often, and can be found by a few makers. Konosuke had a 'Funayuki' shape in both their HD2 and Fujiyama lines that took inspiration from this. Ikeda (not Yoshikazu or Tatsuo) makes some blades for CKTG with this shape. They have one in R-2 by Shibata Kashima. The aforementioned san mai by Itsuo Doi. And then there's western makers that have takes on it too.

The Doi san mai in B#2 is a good example of being iterative on the KS profile. It's san mai vs monosteel. It's around 240 vs the 255 of most KS. And the grind is wildly different. It is a very thick and substantial blade (by comparison). So if you're looking for something that's as close as you can get to an original KS, I'd recommend looking elsewhere. But if it's just the profile you'd like to try, then the Doi gets a big thumbs up from me. In hand, it kind of reminds me of a Shigefusa. While not as long and suji-feeling as a KS, the Doi feels like it has a lot of power. Vastly superior food stickage, too- I'm not one that usually cares for this, but it was good enough to be noticeable and pleasant to me. The longer, thinner tip still gives some of the dexterity that the KS provides. Reactivity was a lot less than my KS as well.. And the price is really stellar.. It feels like a lot of knife for $300.
 
KS clones are a tricky thing, because there are definitely a few different aspects that contribute to what people mean when they talk about a KS- Profile, grind, length and balance being big players. I won't pretend to have tried them all, but generally speaking, with respect to the KS clones out there, most people will say "it's a good knife, but it's not a KS".

While every knife has it's differences, the commonalities I see posted about MOST true KS are-
The 240 sits around 255mm in length.
Heel height around 48-50
The balance point is super well placed, helping such a long knife feel surprisingly nimble
Monosteel in White #2, with a laser-style grind.

If you're just looking for the profile, it is utilized often, and can be found by a few makers. Konosuke had a 'Funayuki' shape in both their HD2 and Fujiyama lines that took inspiration from this. Ikeda (not Yoshikazu or Tatsuo) makes some blades for CKTG with this shape. They have one in R-2 by Shibata Kashima. The aforementioned san mai by Itsuo Doi. And then there's western makers that have takes on it too.

The Doi san mai in B#2 is a good example of being iterative on the KS profile. It's san mai vs monosteel. It's around 240 vs the 255 of most KS. And the grind is wildly different. It is a very thick and substantial blade (by comparison). So if you're looking for something that's as close as you can get to an original KS, I'd recommend looking elsewhere. But if it's just the profile you'd like to try, then the Doi gets a big thumbs up from me. In hand, it kind of reminds me of a Shigefusa. While not as long and suji-feeling as a KS, the Doi feels like it has a lot of power. Vastly superior food stickage, too- I'm not one that usually cares for this, but it was good enough to be noticeable and pleasant to me. The longer, thinner tip still gives some of the dexterity that the KS provides. Reactivity was a lot less than my KS as well.. And the price is really stellar.. It feels like a lot of knife for $300.

The Ikeda knives on CKTG no longer have a KS profile. That R2 by Shibata is getting a lot of traction, it seems.
 
No mention of the OG KS "clone"/ripoff, the Moritaka KS.

Come to mention it, surely it's Moritaka's turn to come back into vogue?
 
You know this is a dead end, right?
Just think... if masamoto cannot even clone the KS, nobody else can. :)
 
I've read that the Funayuki profile used for the Konosuke lines was originally based on the Murray Carter Funayuki and also out of production and really hard to come by. I agree with the sentiment that most clones are good knives but don't really clone that special something. I've heard some poor reviews of the Doi clone that recently can out as well, shibata seems better executed.
 
I've read that the Funayuki profile used for the Konosuke lines was originally based on the Murray Carter Funayuki and also out of production and really hard to come by. I agree with the sentiment that most clones are good knives but don't really clone that special something. I've heard some poor reviews of the Doi clone that recently can out as well, shibata seems better executed.

I had an HD funayaki, it was like 225-228mm long though, unlike a 250mm KS.
 
The Sakai Yusuke SS has a "regular" Sakai profile. There were (literally) a couple of the KS "clone", which were thicker as well as "extra harden" (sic). Rare as hen's teeth.

Hey... reference the extra hardness for the Stainless Steel, that might be interesting... in which range.. 62/63 Hrc?

tks and rgds Z
 
Hey... reference the extra hardness for the Stainless Steel, that might be interesting... in which range.. 62/63 Hrc?

tks and rgds Z

61HRC compared with the "standard" 59HRC, as stated in the description/listing.
 
61HRC compared with the "standard" 59HRC, as stated in the description/listing.

Thanks Tim... i am looking for 63 hrc stainless steel. Not many bladesmiths do stainless in Sakai. I only know of 1 in Sakai....

at 59/60.. needs frequent touch ups/ sharpenings

rgds z
 
Nothing will be an identical clone to the KS. That said, there are certain upgraded/downgraded versions with the same French profile.

Doi gyuto 240 is blue 2 and convex which is an upgrade to edge retention and food release, but a downgrade to ultimate sharpness and performance. For those that like Toyama over Konosuke might like this one.

The Shibata R2 looks to be an upgrade on edge retention, with a downgrade to ultimate sharpness, equal performance, potentially downgraded edge stability.

As with everything, the French profile is a classic. The KS is the white 2 monosteel classic. Note: the monosteel feel on the board is something some will find addictive with the KS!
 
Sounds like poor quality control...

handmade is as handmade does. :)

the original design appears to be very sensitive
to minor changes in materials and geometry

no surprise other smiths cannot replicate the work.
 
handmade is as handmade does. :)

the original design appears to be very sensitive
to minor changes in materials and geometry

no surprise other smiths cannot replicate the work.

I don't know, the whole Masamoto thing has always sounded very esoteric to me. Loads of makers have blades that are very similar when compared to other makers. Then you have this one knife that nobody seems to be able to replicate...Sounds awful fishy to me. :laugh:
 
I've never tried anything like a KS other than a KS
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