Full potential of my 6000 stone?

Hey everyone. Listening to Jon's advice, I started my sharpening journey with a 1000 grit stone. A cheap one I found at my local store (Vogue 400/1000). Recently I bought my first polishing stone. A Kai 3000/6000 because I felt that I developed good enough technique to move up.

Now I'm getting a sharper edge than on the 1000 so I know I'm making progress. My only question now is how do I know I'm reaching the full potential of a 6000 grit stone? I don't think I'm there yet so a way of testing the edge will help me understand my progress. My knife is a Misono Handmade Santoku.

Also, I didn't have all of these marks stay on my 1000 stone. Can some elaborate if the particles are from my knife or my stone? I cannot seem to wash them off. Is it ok to leave it smudged up like this or should I be cleaning it off after every use? Thanks!

I guess the photo didn't link correctly.

https://imgur.com/gallery/8M16c

The black on your stone is metal swarf that was cut from the knife during sharpening. It gets embedded in the stone surface and can impede the stone from cutting more metal. You can clean it with a flattening stone or a nagura.

As far as testing your edge it's your knife, produce, environment and cutting style. Observation over time is going to be the best indicator of whether you're getting a good edge for your specific purpose. If you are unhappy with the edge in terms of sharpness or durability you'll be able to adjust from there. There are various tests that people do right off the stone or strop but usually such tests won't tell you how an edge will actually perform in the kitchen long-term. I suspect that most people just know how to get things right and how a knife will perform through repetition of success and failure.

Metal is clogging the stone.. Needs to be abraded off with a smaller stone or diamond plate of lower grit. On some stones.... its very difficult to get it out whilst on some .. it just rinses off adn with minimal abrading .

Good question.. makes me question if I'm making full use of mine!

I mean, how sharper is an edge off a 6000grit compared to a 10000 or higher? Is it that big of a difference, practically?
How sharp of an edge can your knife get and actually hold?

IMO, just sharpen it until you're happy with how it cuts for your desired uses..
Ask yourself: could it go through that shallot smoother than it did?

If you feel like it could get better and it's not your technique, get a higher grit stone, if it doesn't get sharper, you know it's your technique, if it does.. You've got an even sharper knife!

Handling and testing different knives from different people gets you a sense of what "sharp" actually is, and how sharp knives can get..

I purchased a stone flattener a little while back for when my stones dish but have yet to use it. I should get to using it to remove all of th sludge then so my stone performs at a higher level.

I wonder if it's because I'm not using higher grit. I remember Jon saying that you don't want it too sharp because then you don't get tactile feedback from the product that you are cutting into.

I'm satisfied enough with my technique so far but I want more! I wonder now if I have my edge and angle even enough throughout the entire blade. Possibly that is something I can work on.

All my colleagues have stainless steel and bring it to a professional with (I assume) a machine. Those things are super smooth but I wonder if that's what I'm even looking for with a 6000??

donhoang14 said:

I purchased a stone flattener a little while back for when my stones dish but have yet to use it. I should get to using it to remove all of th sludge then so my stone performs at a higher level.

I wonder if it's because I'm not using higher grit. I remember Jon saying that you don't want it too sharp because then you don't get tactile feedback from the product that you are cutting into.

I'm satisfied enough with my technique so far but I want more! I wonder now if I have my edge and angle even enough throughout the entire blade. Possibly that is something I can work on.

All my colleagues have stainless steel and bring it to a professional with (I assume) a machine. Those things are super smooth but I wonder if that's what I'm even looking for with a 6000??

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I'd make sure you are using the flattener before taking your knife to the stones. Especially if you haven't flattened otb. As mentioned above this will also unclog your stone. Making a grid with a pencil, and not applying too much pressure would be my advice.

As far as 1k vs 6k edge, also remember that not all stones are equal in reported grit. As an example my 1k acts much closer to a 2k. I cook professionally and if I feel that after hitting poly boards it needs to go back to 1k to remove the weakend metal I will. Otherwise touch ups and dry stopping on the 6k will become a good friend to you. If you don't strop I'd strongly suggest it.
In regards to testing the edge, I try to keep the medium that you are cutting consistant. For example I end up cutting a good amount of tomatoes, and use that as a baseline for judging how well my sharpening went. If I go to cut a tomato after coming fresh off the 6k and it doesn't feel right... means my angle control wasn't as good as I thought. Back to the marker trick...rinse...repeat
Hope this helps a bit!

-from another rookie sharpener

Dry stropping with the stone? I've been soaking my stone to strop it daily. Is that what we are supposed to do? Us rookies?

Sorry I think that was supposed to be "try" stropping not dry stropping haha. Though I guess you could call stopping on leather/balsa/felt dry stopping

donhoang14 said:

Dry stropping with the stone? I've been soaking my stone to strop it daily. Is that what we are supposed to do? Us rookies?

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Nomsdotcom said:

Sorry I think that was supposed to be "try" stropping not dry stropping haha. Though I guess you could call stopping on leather/balsa/felt dry stopping

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I have seen loads of people say that they dry strop on stones. I do as well. I find stones to be more aggressive that way and really it is a mater of convenience. Just a few swipes on each side and then a few alternating. I would never do any real work on a stone this way, though.

K813zra said:

I have seen loads of people say that they dry strop on stones. I do as well. I find stones to be more aggressive that way and really it is a mater of convenience. Just a few swipes on each side and then a few alternating. I would never do any real work on a stone this way, though.

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Yes you are right. I actually do dry stop on my 6k. If he's permasoaking I don't know if he'd truly have a fully dry stone.
Hmm.
I'd make the assumption it's possible to achieve the same results either way. Perhaps the only difference would be in how agressive it would act, and the feel?

Nomsdotcom said:

Yes you are right. I actually do dry stop on my 6k. If he's permasoaking I don't know if he'd truly have a fully dry stone.
Hmm.
I'd make the assumption it's possible to achieve the same results either way. Perhaps the only difference would be in how agressive it would act, and the feel?

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Well, I don't think it would make too much of a difference either. I dry strop out of convenience when it is needed.

After stropping my deburring is a bit more effective on a slightly wet stone, though.

I used to use 6k, 8k, even 12k stones on my kitchen knives, but over time I've found that they risk ruining an edge more than refining it. I think it's best to work on getting a really keen edge with a 1k. That should handle 90% of your cutting tasks. I then refine on an aizu, which I think is roughly equivalent to a 3k stone. That edge is toothy and durable. My problem with high grit stones is that they don't remove enough metal to sharpen the blade, but they are hard enough to dull the blade if you are not super precise with your angle. I say leave the high grit stones to the razor guys (I'm a razor guy).
Full disclosure, I've only been at this for about 2 years so my expertise is not long.

clsm1955 said:

I used to use 6k, 8k, even 12k stones on my kitchen knives, but over time I've found that they risk ruining an edge more than refining it. I think it's best to work on getting a really keen edge with a 1k. That should handle 90% of your cutting tasks. I then refine on an aizu, which I think is roughly equivalent to a 3k stone. That edge is toothy and durable. My problem with high grit stones is that they don't remove enough metal to sharpen the blade, but they are hard enough to dull the blade if you are not super precise with your angle. I say leave the high grit stones to the razor guys (I'm a razor guy).
Full disclosure, I've only been at this for about 2 years so my expertise is not long.

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+1. Hard fine stones polish the edge and refine it but don't necessarily make it more sharp. This 10k+ refinement is important when you are putting an edge on your face. But for kitchen use I am finding I like a properly finished 1k edge that I strop on a CrOx pasted strop. Adds a little keenness but doesn't remove the toothiness that works so well cutting meats, fish, tomatoes etc...

K813zra said:

Well, I don't think it would make too much of a difference either. I dry strop out of convenience when it is needed.

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Dry stropping to try out then! I read so many opinions and ask various questions. I think I'm at a stage now in my development that I can do what works for me. What my senses tell me. What my knife tells me.

donhoang14 said:

Dry stropping to try out then! I read so many opinions and ask various questions. I think I'm at a stage now in my development that I can do what works for me. What my senses tell me. What my knife tells me.

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I think that is the best way to look at things!

Razor said:

+1. Hard fine stones polish the edge and refine it but don't necessarily make it more sharp. This 10k+ refinement is important when you are putting an edge on your face. But for kitchen use I am finding I like a properly finished 1k edge that I strop on a CrOx pasted strop. Adds a little keenness but doesn't remove the toothiness that works so well cutting meats, fish, tomatoes etc...

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Not sure you completely deburr on a 1k, though. And stropping on leather won't abrade the burr.

Benuser said:

Not sure you completely deburr on a 1k, though. And stropping on leather won't abrade the burr.

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What burr? Alternating edge leading strokes on a good 1k produces a nice, although toothy edge with no burr. The CrOx on leather definitely polishes and refines this edge but only to the limits of a 1k to 30k jump. This is validated by 1 micron images on SOS.

Perhaps it's possible to sharpen without creating a burr on purpose. I don't think it's possible to perform a single stroke with a 1k close enough to the very edge or matching it without raising one, though.

A solution would be to raise a burr (aka forcing expired metal to the edge) removing said burr through many possible methods... and subsuquently stropping on leather/ dry finishing stone ect.
On the other side it is entirely possible you only wish to re strop on the finishing stone as you have lost some refinement/polish at the edge.
Not sure if the idea of completely deburring on 1k (although possible) was the crux of the issue.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm reading this rather early in the morning

Benuser said:

Perhaps it's possible to sharpen without creating a burr on purpose. I don't think it's possible to perform a single stroke with a 1k close enough to the very edge or matching it without raising one, though.

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technically its possible, why is there a need to raise a burr in the first place? unless you wish to put a fresh edge if you suspect a fatiqued metal. Otherwise.... a burr is an overshot.. passed the limit of the possible apex on that given grit. and steel is wasted. Knife gets thicker each time as it recedes When its close or about the best possible edge ( by feel) ,, alternating strokes and with much lighter pressure to chase for the apex.

My take...once you can sharpen and feel the edge.. burrless sharpening is the way to go.. aim for it. IF there's a burr.. its a testament of an overshot and you need to adjust accordingly... the next time..