Shapton Pro 120

Just asking for your experience with that stone. Would it be useful as a complement of a Glass 220? I'm a bit reluctant to use my Atoma 140 for thinning fat, neglected vintages. Your thoughts, please.

I don't have first-hand experience on that stone but reviews on Amazon.co.jp don't seem very hot.

Frequent complaints are;
-too soft for a Shapton stone and wear/dish rather quickly, yet hard enough to resist flattening
-may get softer in continuous use (about half an hour), which is not an ideal trait on a serious repair work
-frequently clogs and makes work cumbersome
-very coarse and leaves deep scratches and microchips (well this is not Shapton's fault, I guess?)
-expensive compared to most other competitors

Positive reviews are like "super fast yet doesn't clog" "more like grinding than sharpening"
but most of them lack any comparative standpoint, of course.

I would avoid it if all you want is a satisfactory purchase
but maybe for better knowledge and experience you can at least try it once or twice?

Very helpful, thank you, Roy!

I am not aware of any stone that would get anywhere close to what Atoma 140 can do. The huge advantage of Atoma is its flatness & hardness - you can be very precise as to where you remove metal. Most very coarse stones are soft and wear fast.

You can get some of the coarse diamond stones (Jon sells some), but even those will not get you the same speed (though they will probably rival 220 stones).

Makes sense. Thanks, Matus!

Imo a hard ~300 stone is more enjoyable than a atoma 140, but; I think all coarse stones like this need/benefit greatly from being flattened/opened regularly (like every 5 min atleast). Coupled with a granite slab and 60 grit sic king 300 is faster than atoma 140 I think.. For me, on carbon steels.

My experience with thinning knives with atoma is that you drastically shorten the life and effectiveness of atoma afterwards in regards to stone flattening. I kinda wanna test old worn down atomas for thinning and see how they fare. I still haven’t used one of the pink 220-240 grit stones for thinning but I expect them to be fast, effective yet feel like crap and be very thirsty. King 300 is very suitable but I like cerax more( feels better but wears faster, totally worth it though).
I couldn’t help you with the shapton question and decided to ramble on about unrelated stuff instead 😀. Good luck.

Shapton 120 is quite hard and slow to dish. Problem is it only works well with slurry. It clogs, and needs to be re slurried often. It is also not that fast IMO.

I also have yet to use a coarse stone that can compare to Atoma 140. I reckon the time it takes to sharpen over those deep diamond scratches will still be less than thinning on coarse whetstones. Also if you use your diamond plates to slurry the Shapton 120, you'll be wearing them out so quick you may as well just grind on them. So I don't think it's that great for big thinning work.

Wearing out the Atoma is indeed my concern. The SiC grit might lead to a solution. Thanks a lot, guys!

Thinning vintage mono carbon knives over the entire grind? Belt grinder...I did this one time on a stone and that was enough for me.

RDalman said:

Imo a hard ~300 stone is more enjoyable than a atoma 140, but; I think all coarse stones like this need/benefit greatly from being flattened/opened regularly (like every 5 min atleast). Coupled with a granite slab and 60 grit sic king 300 is faster than atoma 140 I think.. For me, on carbon steels.

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I absolutely agree. I very much dislike the way diamond plates feel and would sooner pay the $100ish price for the M24 shapton 120 (available on ebay). This stone is very hard and slows down so it needs to be refreshed frequently (that's the only downside). If money were no issue i'd go for a naniwa or similar vitrified diamond stone.

As previously mentioned as well, the life of atoma is absolutely destroyed when used for sharpening. I went through my first 400 very very quickly when i used it on ONE 330mm yanagi that i used for repairing the blade road/hira. It tore the diamonds right off. Atoma IMO is best left for flattening other stones.

Just my two cents.

Thanks! I can get the Shapton for less than €50, and importing diamond stones from the US costs a fortune -- shipping, local VAT, handling costs...
When thinning I want to convex a bit and being able to exercise quite some pressure on the opposite side. No good idea with an Atoma, I guess.

I say just try it t. It doesn’t cost a fortune and I would take these internet reviews with a huge grain of salt. Lap it with loose SiC power. I will probably get one myself, can’t be worse than a pink brick I guess...

Benuser, if you’re interested Hito Hira Japan just posted a video on YouTube sharpening a yanagiba he starts on a pro 120 and then goes to Naniwa Pro. Good quality video.

Very nice, thanks a lot, Galvaude! Funny he starts on the 120 without mentioning in the video description. Goes directly from there on the 400. Light touch. Love it.
https://youtu.be/ObmBwMHV6bQ

Ordered one, will tell you soon. You all have been most helpful.

Good that you can get one for a decent price. Just hit it lightly with an Atoma periodically and leave a bit of the generated slurry on the stone to speed up cutting action. Dishing during a thinning session isn't much even if you are doing large wide beveled gyutos. Loading happens, but that is also a function on the amount of steel removal you are doing in a given time.

Thanks, Foody! Much appreciated. First encounter with such coarse a stone is always a bit rebarbative, but I got used to that. Had a few stones that needed flattening, that's what I started with. And I love the very regular pattern the stone offers.

The 120 makes me love the Glass 220 a lot. No, seriously, it's a highly effective stone, but comes a bit aggressive out of the box. After some use things get better: very fast, very regular grinding, no need of a lot pressure. Great for fast thinning. As for the bevel, you shouldn't jump straight to a 400, Chosera in my case. There the 220, very lightly used, is most useful.

And yes, do create some mud with the Atoma and a lot of water.

Mandatory video re:
using the shapton pro 120

[video=youtube;Gebk5W8YJc8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gebk5W8YJc8[/video]

I see it as a warning -- no need for such a pressure on the very edge when working with such a coarse stone.

"very coarse and leaves deep scratches and microchips (well this is not Shapton's fault, I guess?)"

grit vs maximum scratch depth seems to be no trivial matter. Otherwise you could just say "use a cheap 120 grit diamond plate, it will cut fast". I said that once, it cut fast, and it took me a long time to get rid of the damage. And it takes only a fraction of the scratches made to be much deeper than the rest of them to ruin a finish...

HRC_64 said:

Mandatory video re:
using the shapton pro 120

[video=youtube;Gebk5W8YJc8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gebk5W8YJc8[/video]

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Why would that person continue after abrading their fingers like that? I just spent 3 hours on mine last night and as long as you pay attention this doesn't happen... absolutely silly.

brooksie967 said:

Why would that person continue after abrading their fingers like that? I just spent 3 hours on mine last night and as long as you pay attention this doesn't happen... absolutely silly.

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Right, I have removed skin from my fingertips on coarse stones when I first started sharpening but something told me to stop long, long before there was blond on the stone. You know, you go "hum is that pain, I should change something" or at least you would think...Typically his videos amuse me though.

More like "why is there rusty slurry on the stone", before you even notice any pain...

LifeByA1000Cuts said:

More like "why is there rusty slurry on the stone", before you even notice any pain...

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Nope, you must have a much higher threshold for pain than I! I am not old enough that my fingertips have lost sensation just yet...

If you are grinding with pressure like that, you are already feeling pain from exerting the pressure.... the extra pain is kind of on the house at first...

LifeByA1000Cuts said:

If you are grinding with pressure like that, you are already feeling pain from exerting the pressure.... the extra pain is kind of on the house at first...

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I guess it is possible but when I thin heavily on such a coarse stone or plate I never feel pain in my fingertips. In the knuckle/joint, sure. Maybe I am just a sissy, lol.

Benuser said:

The 120 makes me love the Glass 220 a lot. No, seriously, it's a highly effective stone, but comes a bit aggressive out of the box. After some use things get better: very fast, very regular grinding, no need of a lot pressure. Great for fast thinning. As for the bevel, you shouldn't jump straight to a 400, Chosera in my case. There the 220, very lightly used, is most useful.

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Benuser, I just ordered one for serious thinning works cause I have the feeling of the Atoma as well, and would hate to wear it. Would the Chosera 400 not suffice after the 120?
I really am running out of space for another stone.
Is it that hard to remove scratches from the 120 with the Cho400?