Medium grit stone recommendations

I've been learning to sharpen using a 1000/6000 combo stone from shun. Im getting good results but I want to try out a nicer stone and one thats a bit bigger. The shun is 180mm x 65mm and fees small on a 240mm knife. I read/watched through the advice from Jon and Peter Nowlan who suggest using a 400 and a 2000 as a basic stones. I figured I would go with the 2000 grit since I dont have a need for thinning or repairs. I can add a coarse stone later. I know many recommend 1000 grit but I figured the shun 1000 is doing fine and that I would enjoy trying a finer grit thats still in the medium grit category.

From reading old posts the naniwa pro 2000 and the Gesshin 2000 seem frequently recommended. Are these good choices? Are there other good medium grit options I should consider? What are the differences that a relative novice would appreciate on these stone? I'm ok with a soaking stone as long as it doesn't require a perma-soak and will be usable within 30 min or so. Splash and go is also fine.

I'll mostly be sharpening my Tanaka blue 2 gyuto and a miyabi 6000mct (R2 steel). For flattening I've been using one of these (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IIOQ9XW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20). I have noticed that it leaves some fine scratches instead of a super smooth surface. Is this an issue?

To start with your last question: scratches caused by the flattener will disappear with one or two sharpenings. Or you may smoothen the surface with a nagura. No need to do so: it will make your first sharpening a bit faster, that's all.
The Naniwa 2k is one of my favourites: hard, fast, with a lot of tactile feedback. Leaves a 3k end result. Very versatile: it's worth trying with a bit of mud, with no mud at all, with more ore less water or pressure, to learn what it does.
No soaking. Wet the surface a bit, wait a few minutes and start.
Haven't used the Gesshin, so I can't compare.

Benuser said:

... Haven't used the Gesshin, so I can't compare.

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Probably a moot point since it is currently sold out, but Jon writes: "This is my all time favorites stone in the 800-2000 grit range. It cuts as fast as most other 1000 grit stones, despite being a higher grit. It has amazing feedback, it is extremely fast cutting, is not too hard for kitchen knives, leaves a very good finish, and resists dishing well."

I'm guessing either would be a step up for OP and "best" would come down to personal preference.

I personally don’t like using soaking stones if you don’t plan on permasoaking them. Not that there’s anything wrong with that but you have to careful about how you dry the stone after each use. Look around for splash and go, naniwa sounds good although I have no experience with it. Watanabe also carries an AI 2k stone that seems to be well liked by those who have used it.
Good luck.

Thanks for the input! I'll stick with a splash and go given that the Gesshin is unavailable anyway. Any thoughts on the Naniwa Pro versus the Naniwa super? One vendor site describes the super as softer and quicker to slurry, and that this may be better for beginners like myself. I've seen the Pro mentioned much more frequently on this forum though.

Using a nagura sounds easy enough but is new to me. What grit should a nagura be relative to the stone I'm using?

The SuperStone is a very different animal: very soft, very slow cutting yet fast dishing. An experienced user can work with any stone. With a beginner consistency is the first concern, so better have a fast stone.
A nagura is practical for cleaning or raising some mud. No need for it, really. Naniwa delivered 600 stones as a nagura with the Choseras. You may use a fine stone as well, if you really want to.

My favorite 2k is the Shapton pro. It has a smooth texture but is fast and has enough feedback. If you work up some slurry and turn that into mud it works well at a working Kasumi finish too. Works good as a finisher on soft steel and a tweener for a 6-8k stone, versatile. Not a stone that a lot of people look at for this sort of thing but I like it. The Gesshin 2k is one of my favorite 1k stones...It is more 1k than 2k in my mind. Lovely stone, though. I like the Chosera/pro 2k well enough too.

All good stones. I have not used a Gesshin ( yet) but I do have the Kohetsu 2000. Nice finish and slow dishing. Good feedback and bite to the edge. I only got it because I needed something to cut my HAP40 steel as well as my EDC knives in CPM154, ZDP189 S30V etc. It cuts all of those very well.

K813zra said:

My favorite 2k is the Shapton pro. It has a smooth texture but is fast and has enough feedback. If you work up some slurry and turn that into mud it works well at a working Kasumi finish too. Works good as a finisher on soft steel and a tweener for a 6-8k stone, versatile. Not a stone that a lot of people look at for this sort of thing but I like it. The Gesshin 2k is one of my favorite 1k stones...It is more 1k than 2k in my mind. Lovely stone, though. I like the Chosera/pro 2k well enough too.

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I like the Shapton Pro 2k as well, and the M15 and M24 2k even better. The Pro is hardest, then M15, then M24.

Carey59 said:

I like the Shapton Pro 2k as well, and the M15 and M24 2k even better. The Pro is hardest, then M15, then M24.

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I have the M24 stones in my shop and have not really noticed a difference. Maybe I should play with them side by side with the same knife or tool.

K813zra said:

I have the M24 stones in my shop and have not really noticed a difference. Maybe I should play with them side by side with the same knife or tool.

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I think the difference in hardness between the M15 and M24 is more noticeable in the 1500 than in the 2000. My M24 2k broke, by the way; first time I've had that happen with a Shapton. ):

Thanks for the shapton suggestions. I'm intrigued by the Shapton pro and M15. Is the M15 still splash and go?

Any big differenced between the naniwa pro and the shapton pro or shapton M15? I was leaning towards getting the naniwa but I can save $25 on a shapton. All are within my budget though if there are gains to going with the naniwa.

crlums said:

Thanks for the shapton suggestions. I'm intrigued by the Shapton pro and M15. Is the M15 still splash and go?

Any big differenced between the naniwa pro and the shapton pro or shapton M15? I was leaning towards getting the naniwa but I can save $25 on a shapton. All are within my budget though if there are gains to going with the naniwa.

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Yes, the Shapton 2k Pro and M-series are both splash and go. The only Naniwa Pro/Chosera I've used is the 3k, so can't answer on that.

crlums said:

Thanks for the shapton suggestions. I'm intrigued by the Shapton pro and M15. Is the M15 still splash and go?

Any big differenced between the naniwa pro and the shapton pro or shapton M15? I was leaning towards getting the naniwa but I can save $25 on a shapton. All are within my budget though if there are gains to going with the naniwa.

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All of my shapton stones can be used as splash and go but the 1k and lower stones are actually somewhat porous and will take in water. I like to lap it to get a fresh surface and them saturate it with water and wait a few moments for it to take in the water and then I give it more. If I do this a few times, maybe three, over the course of 3-5 minutes it holds its water better throughout the process. You can save a bit more than $25 per stone on specific stones too!

That is not to say that I would go with one over the other. The Chosera 400, imo, is a nicer stone than the Shapton 320 though a wee bit slower. I also really like the Chosera 3k. It is very hard but very fast and has great feedback and it follows the Shapton pro 2k very well!

The chosera stones will absorb water. Some guys like to give them a 5 minute soak but I don't do that because there are too many stories of them cracking. I do as I said before, put some water on the top and let it soak in. After you do this a few times they hold their water. You can run them under the sink for a minute and it does the same thing.

Anyway, it is hard to answer your question as the stones do both work well. I find that I can get a good working Kasumi from the Shapton 1k and 2k followed by a Kitayama 8k. The chosera stones don't give me the dark cladding nor the contrast that I want in a clad blade. However, they feel better in use. Both stone sets are efficient, though. It really depends on what you want out of the stone.

crlums said:

... I was leaning towards getting the naniwa but I can save $25 on a shapton. All are within my budget though if there are gains to going with the naniwa.

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If evaluating relative cost, you need to consider the thickness of the abrasive layer. IIRC- Shapton is 5mm and, because of the glass base, you can use almost all of it. I think the Naniwa PRO is 25mm, but you can't use the last little bit (unless you mount it on a base), so you'll get 18-20mm of abrasive. In reality it's not quite that simple because life depends on how quickly the stone releases fresh grit and how often you need to refresh the surface (either to flatten or because it has dulled because it doesn't release grit fast enough for your steel hardness / type.)

Ultimately, it really isn't that different and is going to boil down to personal preference. At this point you should probably take the best deal you get on the stone you can most easily get and get on with gaining experience.

Shapton pros, which we were talking about, are 15mm thick. Naniwa Chosera stone are 25mm thick but most people are going to end up with Naniwa Professional stones, which are 20mm thick. Shapton glass stones are 5mm thick as is the M5. The M15 is 15mm thick and the M24 is 24mm thick...But as you said, basically, you can have a 3m thick stone if it wears a meter per use it won't last as long as a 3mm stone.

Most of this is moot. Unless we are talking about someone super obsessive about sharpening or a pro or very coarse stones the longevity of the average medium to fine stone is likely a lifetime for utility purposes. At least years and years. I have burnt through a Shapton glass 500 but I AM very, very obsessive about testing. If I had used it only when needed it would still have 4.5+mm left...

K813zra said:

Shapton pros, which we were talking about, are 15mm thick. Naniwa Chosera stone are 25mm thick but most people are going to end up with Naniwa Professional stones, which are 20mm thick. Shapton glass stones are 5mm thick as is the M5. The M15 is 15mm thick and the M24 is 24mm thick...But as you said, basically, you can have a 3m thick stone if it wears a meter per use it won't last as long as a 3mm stone.

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OK, I screwed up my example. Big time. Sorry!

But I was trying to illustrate that if you're trying to calculate "value" to make your choice it's more complicated than just the price. (Actually, it also would include shipping, etc.)

K813zra said:

Most of this is moot. Unless we are talking about someone super obsessive about sharpening or a pro or very coarse stones the longevity of the average medium to fine stone is likely a lifetime for utility purposes. At least years and years. I have burnt through a Shapton glass 500 but I AM very, very obsessive about testing. If I had used it only when needed it would still have 4.5+mm left...

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I think we're going the same direction and that's the OP needs make a best guess about which he will prefer and get to using something. Since nothing seems to have spoken to him, I think I'd go with whichever of the suggested stones I could get with the least hassle.

I just went ahead and ordered the shapton pro 2000. Im really looking forward to trying it out. It was a toss up between it and the naniwa pro, but saving a little now will make it that much easier to justify my next stone or knife purchase...

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to give recommendations. Im relatively new here and this forum continues to impress.

Yet-Another-Dave said:

OK, I screwed up my example. Big time. Sorry!

But I was trying to illustrate that if you're trying to calculate "value" to make your choice it's more complicated than just the price. (Actually, it also would include shipping, etc.)




I think we're going the same direction and that's the OP needs make a best guess about which he will prefer and get to using something. Since nothing seems to have spoken to him, I think I'd go with whichever of the suggested stones I could get with the least hassle.

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I agree. But I drove myself nuts with that kind of thing in the beginning. Now, well, now I have had over a hundred stones...so I didn't save any money anyway. Probably about 40(ish) on hand. More if you count small stones and natural nagura. :lol2:

crlums said:

I just went ahead and ordered the shapton pro 2000. Im really looking forward to trying it out. It was a toss up between it and the naniwa pro, but saving a little now will make it that much easier to justify my next stone or knife purchase...

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to give recommendations. Im relatively new here and this forum continues to impress.

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I think you will enjoy it as it is a good stone. Have fun with it!

The Shapton 2k Pro arrived and I finally used it today. It certainly didn't disappoint. The amount of feedback compared to my combo stone is what impressed me the most, and the edge I got is my best yet. Again, I really appreciate all the comments and recommendations from the experienced members here.

crlums said:

The Shapton 2k Pro arrived and I finally used it today. It certainly didn't disappoint. The amount of feedback compared to my combo stone is what impressed me the most, and the edge I got is my best yet. Again, I really appreciate all the comments and recommendations from the experienced members here.

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I am happy to hear that you like it and hope it serves you well for a long time to come!