Help Me Buy My First Knife V2

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? Chef or gyotu

Are you right or left handed? Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Japanese

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 8"

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) I don't require a stainless blade. I'll take recommendations on this one.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
Maximum of $300. $200 is my sweet spot


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? Home use exclusively

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Vegetables, meat trimming, herbs. I won't use this knife for boning or other extremely hard tasks.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Working with pinch grip mostly.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Slice, chop, rock

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Versatile, balanced, long lasting, relatively easy to sharpen, AESTHETICS, comfortable

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Aesthetics are very important to me. I like Damascus but I don't have to have it. Handle looks are very important too. Horn/wood preferably. Black plastic handles aren't my favorite.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
I prefer a somewhat lighter knife. Definitely lean towards lighter Japanese instead of heavier westerns. Good balance is desirable.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
I'd love to be able to use it OOB. I do a lot of slicing.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I'd like a good balance of edge retention and sharpening ease. I want to be able to sharpen it myself but I don't want to sharpen it all the time either.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Yes
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
Looks are equally important to me as function. Im really open to suggestions and ideas. I came here because I tend to make educated purchases after lots of research. Give it to me straight.

Ok, I'll repost here:

Something like this seems to cover all bases.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tana...uto-210mm-with-custom-octagonal-ebony-handle/

Just under $200 when converted from the aussie.
It's not stainless cladding, so will patina, damascus with a very nice handle.

I have a 240 one of these, a more basic version from metal master.
Really nice knife.

You could go with:

Gesshin Uraku: https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...wa-gyuto-with-red-lacquerware-handle-and-saya

Itinomonn stainless: http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-stainless-kasumi-210mm-wa-gyuto/

Never used Uraku, but never had a disappointment with Jon (JKI). Used the carbon version of Itinomonn and it cuts very well.

The Ikazuchi blue #2 stainless clad from JKI would also be a great choice if you want a very thin gyuto fit great fit and finish

I'm one click away from buying that #2 blue Tanaka. I love the ebony handle. It's a beautiful blade. Any other opinions on it?

Tannertheamateur said:

I'm one click away from buying that #2 blue Tanaka. I love the ebony handle. It's a beautiful blade. Any other opinions on it?

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The damascus cladding on the Tanaka is very reactive. It will require frequent wiping while using it, and it has a tendency to discolor food like onions. Allowing a patina to develop will calm the reactivity somewhat, but then the damascus pattern you like will be obscured. I would not recommend it for a first Japanese knife.

A better choice in my opinion is the Tanaka Blue 2 Stainless Clad Nashiji Gyuto: http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-blue-2-nashiji-gyuto-210mm-stainless-clad/. All of the advantages of a carbon core with none of the drawbacks of an iron clad blade. It can be had with several very nice handles, as well.

I'm a beginner compared to the other members but had similar wants to the OP a few months ago. I went with the tanaka blue 2 nashiji from K&S. I absolutely love it. I wanted the ease of use of the stainless clad more than the damascus aesthetic but both seem pretty highly recommended at this price point. Other than the cladding I think they're pretty similar. I think the damascus may be a bit thicker but maybe someone who's actually used both could comment on that.

I think there are too many variables to really judge what you want in a knife without experience with knives. (Profile, grind, length, thick or thinness, etc....)

Therefore, I think, (especially for folks in US where shipping isn't a complication), Jon @ JKI's Gesshin Stainless Wa-Gyuto is the perfect first step. You can ask the JKI Staff to do an initial sharpening to make sure you get a great start and you can learn more about what you like in a knife without breaking your bank. Save the balance and start planning on your next knife, when you have some experience and you'll have a point-of-reference when you say, "thinner", "more belly", "longer" (or "shorter") the experts here will more accurately understand what to recommend. (Plus it comes with a Saya, so you can demote it to "cheap travel knife" without guilt when you upgrade. )

In my case, I was coming from various Euro pattern knives and had some idea I wanted a better edge and less belly. From the general advice here, I fully expected I wanted a 240mm knife, but I found that wasn't the case as a home cook. (I think a lot, if not most, folks here work in professional kitchens and prep much larger volumes than I prep.) What I've found, for me and my skill set, a 210mm Gyuto has a significantly longer working edge than a 8-1/2" Chef's knife and I realize for the volume of prep I usually do, cooking for two people, I want something smaller in my next knife. (N.B. I'm keeping the Gesshin for the "big prep" special occasions and will, probably, eventually upgrade it. But for now, I reading the reviews of the ~180mm Gyutos and Santokus, etc.)

Tannertheamateur said:

I'm one click away from buying that #2 blue Tanaka. I love the ebony handle. It's a beautiful blade. Any other opinions on it?

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I've heard the cladding is very reactive, I would go with the Ginsan or Nashiji Blue 2 version on the same site

I agree that the Tanaka is a very reactive knife but that is what patina is for. Damascus smascus...Obscure away! However, you get a lot of knife for the money with Tanaka in general and there is nothing wrong with getting the stainless clad B#2 or even the Ginsan.

The Gesshin Stainless wa is a good suggestion as well. A lot of knife for the money.

There's been some talk that the Tanaka damascus cladding is a lot less reactive these days. It seems Tanaka changed the material for something better. So should be a safe bet and a crazy good cutter too that thing.

+1 for the Tanaka B2 nashiji too for even easier maintenance and great cutting performance.

Both knives are so much better than they have any right to be at their price point and Tanaka B2 steel takes an edge like nothing else.

.

Wow, thanks guys for the responses. You guys are really quick and extremely helpful. I truly appreciate the suggestions and second opinions. The stainless clad Tanaka definitely appeals to me but I'm also interested in the gesshin stainless. I prefer the look of the Tanaka but both are great looking knives. Any outstanding differences that sway your opinions one way or the other?

Tannertheamateur said:

Wow, thanks guys for the responses. You guys are really quick and extremely helpful. I truly appreciate the suggestions and second opinions. The stainless clad Tanaka definitely appeals to me but I'm also interested in the gesshin stainless. I prefer the look of the Tanaka but both are great looking knives. Any outstanding differences that sway your opinions one way or the other?

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I already voted for the Gesshin and I haven't handled the Tanaka. But I can't imagine James selling you a bad knife, so it seems like you're buying a little more sophisticated construction that will require a little more care. It might sharpen a little easier and achieve a slightly better edge. Mostly, I think you're giving up the Saya and bumping your shipping cost and time to get a more appealing appearance. If you had specific preferences I'm sure there are subtle differences in grind & profile that might make you prefer one to the other, but they appear pretty similar to me in the photos.

Good luck, I'm sure neither is a bad choice.

I just ordered the Gesshin and I'm already antsy. I'll let you know what I think soon. For now, I'll hover around my front door highly anticipating the delivery of this package. Thanks again for your honest suggestions. For a first knife, that price difference for almost aesthetics alone just isn't the best decision when I'm only starting the collection.

These are good choices and since this is a first knife consider this as a reference point that you can relate to in future purchases. I’ve watched this post evolve (my vote was for Tanaka) and think you’ve made a solid choice! Now the maintenance part.... best at this point to head to the sharpening station to get sorted with stones and technique. It’s going to be sharp ootb but that only lasts so long...

So, I've had almost two weeks with the gesshin stainless and it's been truly enjoyable. Great investment and well worth the money. That being said, it's not perfect. Edge was decent ootb but not as sharp as I would like. I'm investing in some stones to start sharpening. This knife is going to be my Guinea pig of sorts. I'm already planning my next carbon Gyuto purchase to have alongside the gesshin. 210mm is a good length for me. I don't want an extremely heavy blade. I also like the idea of a laser. Anyone have thoughts on masakage shimo 210mm or the koishi 210mm? Both look promising.

Tannertheamateur said:

So, I've had almost two weeks with the gesshin stainless and it's been truly enjoyable. Great investment and well worth the money. That being said, it's not perfect. Edge was decent ootb but not as sharp as I would like. I'm investing in some stones to start sharpening. This knife is going to be my Guinea pig of sorts. I'm already planning my next carbon Gyuto purchase to have alongside the gesshin. 210mm is a good length for me. I don't want an extremely heavy blade. I also like the idea of a laser. Anyone have thoughts on masakage shimo 210mm or the koishi 210mm? Both look promising.

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You know Jon does finish sharpening for free on knives you order from him if you ask? Next time, if you want to experience sharp ask for an initial sharpening!

I have owned or used the Masakage Shimo, Yuki, Koishi and Mizu and not a single one of them is anything like a laser. Not even close. Middle weights across the board. Some are thinner at the edge than others, none are too thin at the tip and some had broad shoulders. All do work well and most are good values. But if it is a laser you seek, look elsewhere.

Hey Kit, thanks for the quick reply! I knew they were going to be more in the middle weight range. I think I remember hearing the Mizu had broader shoulders. If I remember correctly(could be entirely wrong), I thought I heard the shimo is thinner at the tip than say the Mizu. On the other hand, I've never used a laser but was implying that they conceptually appeal to me. If you have any recommendations in the <300 range, I'd love to hear those.
I definitely should have utilized that option but it's also a good reason for me to learn to sharpen haha.

Tannertheamateur said:

Hey Kit, thanks for the quick reply! I knew they were going to be more in the middle weight range. I think I remember hearing the Mizu had broader shoulders. If I remember correctly(could be entirely wrong), I thought I heard the shimo is thinner at the tip than say the Mizu. On the other hand, I've never used a laser but was implying that they conceptually appeal to me. If you have any recommendations in the <300 range, I'd love to hear those.
I definitely should have utilized that option but it's also a good reason for me to learn to sharpen haha.

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I seem to have got unlucky with my Yuki because it had very, very broad shoulders but people tell me that isn't normal. My Mizu had a fairly thin tip for an Echizen knife but none of them have what I would call thin tips. The Shimo had the best overall grind. Less noticeable shoulder and slightly more tapper to a medium thin tip. I think it is the better of the Masakage knives based on my needs. It is wicked reactive though.

I like knives with laser like performance while still having backbone. Me, I'd go with a Tanaka B#2. I also like the Takumi Ikeda knives. Similar grind and feel to a Tanaka but thinner throughout.

If you want to check out a laser, I like about all of them. Ginga, Tadatsuna, Yusuke, Konosuke, Suisin, Shibata, Takamura etc.

However, there is nothing wrong with a middleweight either. Man...I just like knives.

Lasers are pretty sweet and good knives for those new to the game. I currently have Suisin IH, Tadasuna INOX and Gesshin Ginga lasers and like them all. The next step towards a mid weight is a Tanaka Ginsanko or stainless clad blue, or a host of others.

I seriously appreciate the info. I completely understand
I was just telling my friends how quickly I'm getting addicted. I spend entirely too much time researching and thinking about knives. I've always been a guy who respects, desires, and loves quality products with Artisan level skill. This is such a fun avenue for me to experience that. Enough rambling though.
I'm definitely interested in the shimo line the most out of the masakages. I've been recommended the b#2 Tanaka before so I'm definitely still interested in that blade. Could you give me some cons I could/would experience with a laser in comparison to a middleweight?

Tannertheamateur said:

I seriously appreciate the info. I completely understand
I was just telling my friends how quickly I'm getting addicted. I spend entirely too much time researching and thinking about knives. I've always been a guy who respects, desires, and loves quality products with Artisan level skill. This is such a fun avenue for me to experience that. Enough rambling though.
I'm definitely interested in the shimo line the most out of the masakages. I've been recommended the b#2 Tanaka before so I'm definitely still interested in that blade. Could you give me some cons I could/would experience with a laser in comparison to a middleweight?

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It will depend on which middleweight and what type of grind it has but I can try to give you a general idea based on the knives that I own or have owned. Typically middleweight knives have better food separation than lasers and as such less sticking but can wedge on some ingredients. The flip side is that lasers go through food more easily but exhibit more sticking and have poorer food separation. Middleweights have more mass behind them and I find it makes chopping seem more natural. Hand fatigue can be give and take as well. If the lasers spine is not perfectly round I find it hurts my hand/finger on long prep sessions. However, even with a square spine a middleweight is less likely to do this, to me. The overall feel of how they work is simply different.

That is just my perception.

Awesome, I've been doing some research and I feel that a thinner middle weight is going to fit my style the most. Still have the weight and food separation buy still be able to easily slide through most foods. Have you used the clad blue 2 Tanaka? Also, Ikeda is the one apprenticing under Anryu right? I've been looking at his 210mm Gyuto. It's a definite candidate for me right now. BTW, this community has just been nothing less than helpful and patient with me. I really appreciate you guys directing another noobie in myself.

Tannertheamateur said:

Awesome, I've been doing some research and I feel that a thinner middle weight is going to fit my style the most. Still have the weight and food separation buy still be able to easily slide through most foods. Have you used the clad blue 2 Tanaka? Also, Ikeda is the one apprenticing under Anryu right? I've been looking at his 210mm Gyuto. It's a definite candidate for me right now. BTW, this community has just been nothing less than helpful and patient with me. I really appreciate you guys directing another noobie in myself.

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Yes, Takumi Ikeda is an apprentice of Katshushige Anryu and I actually prefer the knives from the apprentice. Thinner overall and a higher more convex grind. Taller profile too. I have not used the stainless clad B#2 just the Damascus. I have used the Damascus VG-10 and own the KU. I really like Tanaka knives. The Ikeda is a great knife too but I really have a thing for Tanaka knives and I don't think I am alone in that.

While food release is a sticking point with lasers it is or considerably less importance for a home cook than a pro. Most home cooks won't even notice (for the most part) wiping some food off the blade.

daveb said:

While food release is a sticking point with lasers it is or considerably less importance for a home cook than a pro. Most home cooks won't even notice (for the most part) wiping some food off the blade.

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I agree, it does not bother me so long as the food can be wiped off. Some blades, not lasers that I have but more of the mass produced knives, seem to have this welding effect with potatoes...That drives me nuts.

Definitely a no for the wedging. Having a knife cleanly and smoothly slice through vegetables is huge for me. Thanks for bringing me back to earth again with the food release. Being a home chef is definitely a completely different set of circumstances. I'm still coming back to the Tanaka b#2. How does it compare to the Richmond laser(kurosaki) 210mm? If i understand correctly, the Richmond is heavier than most lasers but still has a laser feel with added weight to cut through most things. Feelings towards it?

Never used Richmond, but you should try Gesshin Kochi if you are after a lighter workhorse that has no wedging problems. If you decide for a heavier workhorse, Gesshin Heiji or a 210mm Watanabe pro are awesome in my opinion. I chose to buy a Heiji from Jon because i was looking for the thinnest possible Heiji. Never regreted this decision, it is on of my best performing blades now.

The Kurosaki laser is like a slightly thinner normal kurosaki blade. His blades are nice but I still wouldn't call it a laser and do not understand where the moniker comes from. Most of the knives I have tried from the Takefu knife village seem very, very similar to me. The Tanaka is more fluid through product regardless of what it is. Be it hard and dense or soft. The Kuro will feel laser like through soft product only. If you square off a lot of carrots, I do, you will appreciate a convex grind.

As to the above suggestion of watanabe, those I like too. Very beastly but moves through product very well.

Friends don't let friends buy Richmonds.