Which Knife Should I Buy?

I'm looking for a new chef's knife and was currently looking at:
Yaxell Dragon 8" Chef's knife ($100)
Mac Professional 8" Chef's knife ($160)
Kramer by Zwilling 8" Stainless Steel Chef's knife ($160)
Shun Premier 8" Chef's knife ($190)

Even though I have these down, I'm also open to other options. Here is the Questionaire below for you guys to check out. Thanks!!!!

LOCATION
What country are you in? USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? Chef's knife/Gyuto hybrid

Are you right or left handed? Left handed, but I want a knife with a 50/50 grind, because my wife is right handed and will also be using the knife.

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? I'm used to more of a western style handle, but I'm open.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 210mm, but again, I'm open to something similar in size.

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) Yes, this is a must. I'm looking for something with low maintenance. My wife isn't the best at cleaning the knives right away and will leave them wet sometimes as well.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? $200 USD



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) All of the above, minus filleting fish. I'm looking for a good all around knife.

What knife, if any, are you replacing? Tojiro DP. I like the lighter weight of the Tojiro than traditional German knives and this thinner blade profile.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) Mainly hammer grip, but I've starting learning to use the pinch grip as well.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) Push-Cut, Rock, and chop

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) I'm looking for a step up from this blade in terms of fit and finish (Tojiro is plain). I'm also looking for a knife that has more of a rounded belly than a traditional Gyuto, because I want the ability to rock cut and also looking for knife that has a taller edge profile as well.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? I'm open to all pattern. I prefer not to have a wood handle, as they aren't as durable. My wife has a tendency to leave the knives wet and I don't want my $100-200 knife's handle to swell or split. I'm open to laminate, G10, Micarta, and anything else that is durable.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? I like the lighter weight and balance of the Tojiro compared to the Henckels I grew up with. They always felt blade heavy and put a strain on my wrist.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? I'd like to be able to use it right out of the box. I'm looking for a smoother rock chopper, a push cutter, that's durable and has great edge retention.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? As long as possible. The Tojiro was recommended to me by this forum as a great "first Japanese knife" and I would have to agree. It's simple, inexpensive, low maintenance, but now I want something nicer and that better fits my cutting style. I also realized with the Tojiro, that if I want a nicer knife, I will have to start sharpening them myself. I would be ok with something like sharpening once a month and stropping in between as needed.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) Wood

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) Will be. I realized that with the higher quality knives and 60+ rockwell ratings you need to learn how to sharpen on whetstones.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) Yes



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

One other thing I forgot to mention, I'd prefer a knife with a 60+ HRC. That's why I don't have Wustoff or Henckels on my list. I like the added sharpness, as well as the increased edge retention of the harder blades.

Can anyone give me some help and advise????

Hi Sac, I think the knives you cited may have been a little off-putting but I'll jump in.

Suggest you lose the Yaxell and Shun from your line-up. Housewife knives to look good on the wall, unnecessary bling, meh performance, pricey.

The Mac is a gateway knife for many. I've never used or owned one, though I've seen a couple in pro kitchens. My impression is that they are marketed more for pro use than for homeowners and that they've gotten a little pricey in recent times when compared to the competition.

The Kramer has some fans here though I'm not among them. (Some of this stuff is pretty subjective.)

A couple of good knives that will be a considerable step up from your Tojiro and under $200 include Gesshin Wa Stainless, Gesshin Uraku, Tanaka Ginsanko, Misono as well as others.

Maybe the dam will break now.

thanks for the reply and advise!!! I will look up those knives you recommended. I’m still relatively new to the knife scene, but I’m curious why the knives I originally put down were “off putting?” I’ve never heard someone bash a Shun before. I do agree that it’s expensive.

I guess that Shuns are seen as offering so-so performance at a premium price, wrapped up in a pretty package. I've never used one so can't comment from personal experience.

The aspects of blade performance that should interest you are:
1) The heat treatment (HT) of the steel is, IMO, much more important than the steel itself in most cases. A good heat treatment makes the steel fine grained with small, even carbides (so it sharpens easily and well), and makes it adequately hard and tough.

2) The profile of the knife. Many prefer a flatter profile to take advantage of the push slicing that these knives excel at. If you like to rock chop, you will need a little belly on the knife. Be aware, however that the hard, sharp, fragile edges on these knives can microchip if you rotate the blade laterally while it is in contact with the board, so you'll need to be careful rock chopping. Learn to push cut, push slice and draw slice instead and you'll get the best out of these knives (to be fair, I still do rock chop occasionally, but I do it verrryyyy carefully).

3) The grind (cross sectional geometry) of the knife. It's desirable to have a knife which is thin behind the edge (to minimise wedging in hard foods) and has convexity further up the blade (to maximise food release in wet foods). Very thin knives can't have much convexity and very convex knives can't be very thin, so there is a tradeoff between the two. You kinda have to choose whether you want a thin knife (laser), a thicker, convexed knife (sometimes called a workhorse) or a middleweight which is somewhere in between. However, some knives don't have a grind optimized for either thinness or food release.

The knives that Dave has suggested all have good reputations and are worth considering.

The only one of these that I have used is the Tanaka Ginsanko Najishi. It is certainly a good knife with a good HT of Ginsanko 3 (fully stain resistant). The profile is slightly curved near the heel rising to a medium sized belly. It's a wide bevel knife with a najishi (pear skin) Finish on the blade face. The knife is fairly thin but food release is pretty good considering how thin it is (but note that some thicker knives have much better food relese). Its a roughly 50-50 edge but the grind is more convex on the right, which favours food release for a right hander (this is very common in Japaneseknives). The tip is usefully thin but there are certainly thinner tips around. If you buy the full version at K&S, you get a nicely rounded spine and choil (improves comfort) and a very nice octagonal ebony handle. If you buy the cheaper lite version, you still get a nice octagonal wooden handle and the reports that I have read are that the spine and choil aren't too uncomfortable.

There are some other knives to consider in this space, but I only know them by reputation (have not used them) so I won't comment.

Anyone else??? I want as many opinions as possible

FWIW a Shun was my gateway knife. They don't get a lot of respect here because there are other options that give a much better bang for the buck. Well that, and the fact the Shun's promo videos have people whose knife skills are worse than mine, which is pretty hard to do. A shun is a step up from most mass marketed knives so you will see a huge increase in performance. You can get that for a lot less money, though.

Daveb gave some good advice (as he always does) and the man knows what he's talking about.

I personally have and use this knife:

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/new-items/products/gesshin-stainless-210mm-wa-gyuto

it is a lot of knife for the money. The neck (machi) is a little bit longer than normal which makes a pinch grip very comfortable (geeze I sound like a vendor) but it's true.

It's the knife I take with me when I'm going to friends/family's houses to help cook and know others may grab it to use.

Shun knives were my gateway too: the Shun Premier Santoku and the Dual Core Kiritsuke (bought on sale, which somewhat mitigates the "overpriced for what it is" objections to the brand).

I've moved on to other J-knives, but the Shun Premier Santoku has become my wife's favorite knife, and she uses it constantly. Note: she has learned over the years how to maintain quality knives, never banging in the sink, careful use on the board, never put in the dishwasher, putting away carefully in a knife block, etc. If your wife will be using this knife it will require similar care to avoid chipping. The fit and finish on the Shun Premier line is very good, and you'll probably like the handle if you don't want a bare wood Japanese wa handle. It's just that you're paying a lot for marketing with this brand.

Just to repeat what was mentioned above -- high-hardness Japanese knives aren't usually recommended for rock chopping, which can risk chipping the blade due to the sideways twisting action of that technique. If you're willing to alter your technique to vertical chopping (not twisting, rock chop), and push and pull cuts, then a high hardness J-knife will be a better fit.

I have two Tanaka Ginsan (both the Migaki and the Nashiji) from Knives and Stones. I prefer the heft of the Nashiji. The Migaki is noticeably thinner. If you like thin laser knives, then consider the Takamura R2 with red handle. It's priced around $200.

If that’s the case where I could chip the knife with a rock and chop cutting method, should I look more towards a Wustoff, MAC, or the Gesshin that Dave’s recommended that have a 58-59 hardness? Would I be safer going that route?

In my experience you would have to be rocking too hard to be useful or using a blade thinner than any being discussed here to put the blade at risk from chipping.

good to know Daveb!!!

I would add that knives discussed here are rarely truly ambidextrous, except for the very thin ones.

I agree with the daveb! By the way I wanted to ask - I was looking for a knife for pizza and I found this http://amzn.to/2yv9cSZ. What say?