Really good all stainless Santoku?

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deskjockey

deskjockey

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Location
Texas, USA
I have started looking for a Santoku after stepping away from a Tojiro DP many years ago when life became hectic living out of suitcase in many different locations for work. Now I'm semi-retired and I am working on eating better so, that means quality time in the kitchen with vegtables!
:doublethumbsup:

I'm not really interested in another Gyuto at the present time, though I'm sure that will come at some point in the future. :wink:

My curiosity was peaked looking at a Masutani VG10 Damascus Santoku and I see the Tojiro (Fujitori) also has a VG-10 and Damascus Santoku. Then there is the Tojiro Santoku F-517 which seems to have an R-2/SG-2 core steel which should be a superior performer along with apparently superior grinds and a higher level of fit and finish (is it as thin as the Masutani?).

How much difference is there in these knives? What other makes and models should I consider? ~$150 is about the max I can spend though, something extra worthy and special could happen with some Christmas money and a little extra saving on my part. I have a slight preference for a traditional Japanese handle but, a well executed 'western' handle is fine with me too. I really like THIN knives and want a Santoku that isn't a German Chef knockoff in disquise (high tip with lots of belly). This knife needs to be all stainless or, at least semi-stainless, with a slightly blade forward balance. I know this price range puts Super Blue blades within reach but, at this stage of my life I really need to be honest with myself and stick with high quality stainless, plus the 'advantages' of carbon steel are not significant to me at this point in my life. I should note that I like to use a Santoku a bit like a Chinese cleaver to scoop up veggies so, some blade heigth is needed but nothing out of the ordinary (just nothing short). I'm not sure where a Nakiri would fit in this search but, they seem a bit short overall compared to your average Santoku. And for the record, no frozen food, no prying, no big bones, etc. are in the path of this blade.

What do the RKI around here recommend for a thin stainless Santoku?

TIA,
Deskjockey
 
deskjockey said:
I have started looking for a Santoku after stepping away from a Tojiro DP many years ago when life became hectic living out of suitcase in many different locations for work. Now I'm semi-retired and I am working on eating better so, that means quality time in the kitchen with vegtables!
:doublethumbsup:

I'm not really interested in another Gyuto at the present time, though I'm sure that will come at some point in the future. :wink:

My curiosity was peaked looking at a Masutani VG10 Damascus Santoku and I see the Tojiro (Fujitori) also has a VG-10 and Damascus Santoku. Then there is the Tojiro Santoku F-517 which seems to have an R-2/SG-2 core steel which should be a superior performer along with apparently superior grinds and a higher level of fit and finish (is it as thin as the Masutani?).

How much difference is there in these knives? What other makes and models should I consider? ~$150 is about the max I can spend though, something extra worthy and special could happen with some Christmas money and a little extra saving on my part. I have a slight preference for a traditional Japanese handle but, a well executed 'western' handle is fine with me too. I really like THIN knives and want a Santoku that isn't a German Chef knockoff in disquise (high tip with lots of belly). This knife needs to be all stainless or, at least semi-stainless, with a slightly blade forward balance. I know this price range puts Super Blue blades within reach but, at this stage of my life I really need to be honest with myself and stick with high quality stainless, plus the 'advantages' of carbon steel are not significant to me at this point in my life. I should note that I like to use a Santoku a bit like a Chinese cleaver to scoop up veggies so, some blade heigth is needed but nothing out of the ordinary (just nothing short). I'm not sure where a Nakiri would fit in this search but, they seem a bit short overall compared to your average Santoku. And for the record, no frozen food, no prying, no big bones, etc. are in the path of this blade.

What do the RKI around here recommend for a thin stainless Santoku?

TIA,
Deskjockey
Click to expand...

Takamura R2 santoku, you'll love it :)
 
+1 for Takamura. Another option might be a Tadafusa SLD santoku if you can find one. I think Tadafusa is a bit thinner that Takamura.
 
LOCATION
What country are you in? East Texas, USA!

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in? Santoku

Are you right or left handed? Right-handed handle preferred with a symmetrical edge

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Japanese preferred but, Western is acceptable too.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 165~180mm

Do you require a stainless knife? Prefer all stainless but, could live with stainless/carbon san mai

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? see above

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? Home kitchen

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for? Vegtable prep, mainly vertical cleaving cuts not rocking or slicing cuts though, mincing herbs and garlic will be needed occasionally along with general utility cuts.

What knife, if any, are you replacing? The "German" pattern chef's knife.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? Not much of a pinch grip person myself, amost all handle grip with a Santoku.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? Vertical cleaving, rocking cuts, slicing

What improvements do you want from your current knife? Thin, accutely sharp (shallow grind bevel and thin edge), lightweight, comfy handle, no heel bolster :)O)

Better aesthetics: I like Damascus and Chestnut handles.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? VG-10 at high RC is good enough but, not hard over against Sandvik 12C27 and similar steels, Powdered (R2/SG-2) metal would be nice but not required.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? Sythetics or Boos board

Do you sharpen your own knives? Yes, Shapton stones

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? N/A

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? N/A

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
See above
 
Spipet said:
Takamura R2 santoku, you'll love it :)
Click to expand...

icanhaschzbrgr said:
+1 for Takamura. Another option might be a Tadafusa SLD santoku if you can find one. I think Tadafusa is a bit thinner that Takamura.
Click to expand...

That Takamura looks really nice. I wish it had a Japanese handle and some Damascus cladding though, that would probably take it way out of my price range.

The Tadafusa has a nice price and the steel sounds interesting. How does it compare to VG-10 for example? The handle looks a bit weird, sort of a teardrop shape. How does it feel in real world use?
 
Takamura R2 seems perfect :dunno:

if not, this SS clad wh#1 TF has a Wa handle option
07141428_5001037893378.jpg
 
Izinite's a Teruyasu Fujiwara (TF) head. I have 2 of both makers. Wouldn't hesitate to buy another from each.
My opinion is ** If you feel sharpening, polishing, maintenance, making your knife perform to your specifications through trial and error through successive sessions on the stones. And may buy another knife in future years. Go TF.
If you want stainless, to not fall in the wonderful world of knives, and to "get one and be done" get the takamura.
 
@LucasFur Come on man- don't ward of potential new knife nuts ;D

One of us.. One of us..
 
My Shiro Kamo Syousin Suminagashi (a 270 gyuto, I have also handled a 240 gyuto which is a similar grind) is certainly not a laser (I would say a thin middleweight) but it is an excellent knife and very good value for money. The R2 steel sharpens very nicely and stays sharp a long time. I actually nicked my finger on it tonight almost without realising. Food release is good for its thicknesses . The profile is gently curved. The taper is fairly distal but the tip is usefully thin. The spine and choil are gently eased, but I keep meaning to do some more work in it. The stainless suminigashi (damascus) pattern is quite subtle, which suits me (YMMV). The Shinko Kurokumo is an upgraded version with anicely rounded spine and choil, a slightly deeper etch to the suminigashi and a nice enony handle, for a few extra bikkies. It's a fairly tall blade which I also like. This may mean that the shorter gyuto lengths may perform somewhat like a santoku profile (don't know, I like 240-270 gyutos and semipermenantly lent out my only santoku).
 
LucasFur said:
Izinite's a Teruyasu Fujiwara (TF) head. I have 2 of both makers. Wouldn't hesitate to buy another from each.
My opinion is ** If you feel sharpening, polishing, maintenance, making your knife perform to your specifications through trial and error through successive sessions on the stones. And may buy another knife in future years. Go TF.
If you want stainless, to not fall in the wonderful world of knives, and to "get one and be done" get the takamura.
Click to expand...

Omega said:
@LucasFur Come on man- don't ward of potential new knife nuts ;D

One of us.. One of us..
Click to expand...

If the job prospects work out, no way its 'one and done'. However, it is important that I buy fewer "right" knives versus more knives that don't work for me personally. For example, a 210mm Gyuto is just too short for me to be practical. A 300mm Gyuto is a whole lot easier on my wrists as well as being better for heads of lettuce in addition to being a top 'rocking cutter' of carrots, celery, etc.

The Chinese cleaver I'm using today isn't really working for me as it is just too soft to be practical. This brought me back to the Santoku.
 
deskjockey said:
That one looks interesting with its Japanese handle and Damascus style cladding. At 2.6mm at the heel though, it seems a tad thick and heavy.
Click to expand...
I certainly wouldn't call it thick. A little blade heavy because it's quite tall and the rosewood handle isn't very heavy (the heavier ebony handle on the kurokumo version helps even this out) but it's not really that heavy. The tall blade also gives more height to allow the grind to thin out.
 
Akifusa cost around 250 but those are impressive! SRS15 powdered steel with great edge retention. And you can choose between 2 sizes! Correct me if I am wrong but I believe western handle only.

Given your budget I would most likely go for the Takamura R2.
 
Have to say that the Takamura santoku is hard to beat for a thin stainless. However it has a western handle. Teruyasu Fujiwara are great cutters but you can never be sure of F&F - although they can be very good.

I only have the nakiri but the Gesshin Uraku might suit your needs. Stainless clad SKD11 core with hexagonal wa handle & a saya included. Jon is a vendor here. Go to: japaneseknifeimports.com.
 
deskjockey said:
That Takamura looks really nice. I wish it had a Japanese handle and some Damascus cladding though, that would probably take it way out of my price range.

The Tadafusa has a nice price and the steel sounds interesting. How does it compare to VG-10 for example? The handle looks a bit weird, sort of a teardrop shape. How does it feel in real world use?
Click to expand...
Handle is very grippy and perfectly fine for pinch grip. Tadafusa makes a decent HT on core steel and it's not chippy. I gifted such santoku to my mother-in-law 2 years ago and it seems to perform pretty well in home environment.
 
LucasFur said:
Izinite's a Teruyasu Fujiwara (TF) head. I have 2 of both makers. Wouldn't hesitate to buy another from each.
My opinion is ** If you feel sharpening, polishing, maintenance, making your knife perform to your specifications through trial and error through successive sessions on the stones. And may buy another knife in future years. Go TF.
If you want stainless, to not fall in the wonderful world of knives, and to "get one and be done" get the takamura.
Click to expand...

:p all I'm gonna say is TFTFTFTF! :p but yes i agree with all of the above! :)
 
Hey guys,

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Heiji's semi stainless?

Heiji's semi stainless Santoku is pretty much my perfect Japanese Allrounder.
It's wicked sharp, easy to sharpen, holds it's edge well, and perfectly balanced in the hand.
While it's "semi" stainless, I haven't had any rust despite abusing my knife.

I haven't tried his stainless damascus, but apparently it's pretty nice.
 
mlau said:
Hey guys,

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Heiji's semi stainless?

Heiji's semi stainless Santoku is pretty much my perfect Japanese Allrounder.
It's wicked sharp, easy to sharpen, holds it's edge well, and perfectly balanced in the hand.
While it's "semi" stainless, I haven't had any rust despite abusing my knife.

I haven't tried his stainless damascus, but apparently it's pretty nice.
Click to expand...

Heiji can be brittle though
 
What about the SKD Gesshin Uraku? Yoshikane SKD is nice too, but also on the brittle side.
 
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