Best grit/stone to start on for German knives?

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sac36555

sac36555

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So I’m already buying either a Chosera 800 or Suehiro Cerax 1000 for my sharpening stone for my J-knives and a Suehiro Rika 5000 for polishing. The issue I have is I also have a bunch of German knives from my life “pre J-knives” and have been told that they require starting with a lower grit stone and finishing them with the 1000 grit. So my question is, which grit equivalent of stone should I get and what are good stones in that range?
 
No matter the knife you will need a coarse stone. I work with a very coarse stone (pink brick 220 or DMT XXC) for thinning and a coarse (Chosera 400 or shapton glass 500) to start really dull knife on. I like to finish most stainless at 1000.
 
sac36555 said:
... The issue I have is I also have a bunch of German knives from my life “pre J-knives” and have been told that they require starting with a lower grit stone and finishing them with the 1000 grit. So my question is, which grit equivalent of stone should I get and what are good stones in that range?
Click to expand...

Search the forums, many discussions with many options reviewed. (Hint, I get better results with Google qualified with "site:kitchenknifeforums.com" as a search term, without the quotes, than I do with forum search functions.)

Personally, I like the Cerax 320 on cheap soft gummy stainless. It gets mixed reviews here, once being compared unfavorably to a chunk of sidewalk, but seems to bite and cut the cheap steel well for me. (I'm not claiming to be a great sharpener or to get great results on garbage stainless, but I feel I get pretty good results on good steels and can make crummy steels less-dull when needed. The Cerax 320 is the least painful way to get the less-dull results I've tried so far.) BTW- I found one of the often recommended coarse stones, the Beston 500, pretty miserable. I'm definitely in the minority, but there have been other comments about it's issues too. You soak it and it doesn't hold the water, so it goes from too wet to too dry without spending any significant time "just right". (Someday I'll get some lacquer, seal its sides & base, and try again. I'm not rushing.)

There are stone lines you don't mention that have coarse stones also recommended. I don't know if their price is too premium or you have supply issues in your area or they've just been overlooked. Jon @JKI's Gesshin line has several coarse options that have fans for mushy stainless. Also the Shapton Glass 500 had some big fans for this purpose. They might be better, but the Cerax's price point matches my goals for the old crummy knife stone better. (YMMV)
 
Yet-Another-Dave said:
Search the forums, many discussions with many options reviewed. (Hint, I get better results with Google qualified with "site:kitchenknifeforums.com" as a search term, without the quotes, than I do with forum search functions.)

Personally, I like the Cerax 320 on cheap soft gummy stainless. It gets mixed reviews here, once being compared unfavorably to a chunk of sidewalk, but seems to bite and cut the cheap steel well for me. (I'm not claiming to be a great sharpener or to get great results on garbage stainless, but I feel I get pretty good results on good steels and can make crummy steels less-dull when needed. The Cerax 320 is the least painful way to get the less-dull results I've tried so far.) BTW- I found one of the often recommended coarse stones, the Beston 500, pretty miserable. I'm definitely in the minority, but there have been other comments about it's issues too. You soak it and it doesn't hold the water, so it goes from too wet to too dry without spending any significant time "just right". (Someday I'll get some lacquer, seal its sides & base, and try again. I'm not rushing.)

There are stone lines you don't mention that have coarse stones also recommended. I don't know if their price is too premium or you have supply issues in your area or they've just been overlooked. Jon @JKI's Gesshin line has several coarse options that have fans for mushy stainless. Also the Shapton Glass 500 had some big fans for this purpose. They might be better, but the Cerax's price point matches my goals for the old crummy knife stone better. (YMMV)
Click to expand...

I like both the Cerax 320 and glass 500 in this case. Either stone will work fine but the 500 is more convenient.
 
There are no real rules. Just use the best stone you have available for the job. I agree with Galvaude that a coarse stone is an essential tool in any sharpening kit - especially when you have to thin. Imanishi pink brick, JNS 300 and the Gesshin 400 are some that come to mind. I usually sharpen German steel to about 2000-3000 depending on the knife. If you add a 2 or 3k stone you'll increase the versatility of your kit a lot and it will work well in a progression with your J-Knives.
 
I use a Gesshin 400 for the old German knives in the drawer, works fine.

Sometimes I'll finish on a Gesshin 2k, but it's kinda pointless with the way these knives get used in the house. Guest knives, basically... just rescued one left in the sink last weekend. Unlike the Japanese knives, I keep them in decent shape with a slightly abrasive DMT "Ceramic Steel" rod that extends the life of the edge a little, between sharpening sessions.
 
panda said:
soft stainless dont need to go any higher than 400 grit. best left for oilstones, not japanese waterstones...
Click to expand...

I agree, I still use a norton fine India for these knives and the edge is really aggressive and last well with touch-ups on a ceramic rod. I still enjoy oil stones from time to time, maybe it’s the WD-40 smell...
 
panda said:
soft stainless dont need to go any higher than 400 grit. best left for oilstones, not japanese waterstones...
Click to expand...

The question about being 'perfect' or 'best' vs 'good enough',
IMHO needs more thought and explanation.

blunt edges and extensive thinning obviously need rougher stones
and one can also use sandpaper and belt sanders.

Other considerations are how much of this type of work
will be done in the future, at what cost in time/money/stones
etc.
 
I like the Chosera 400 a lot for Western stainless; I’ve done dozens of knives on the one I have and it’s still mostly there. I prefer to work with the Gesshin 400 but I wore through the first one pretty quickly so I save that for better knives. Haven’t tried a Cerax or a Glass though, and Glass will probably be my next coarse stone.
 
If one is into sharpening and has waterstones I sure see no reason to revert to oil stones when they can just pull out a coarse waterstone...Not that one can not use oil stones but again, I see no reason to buy them specifically to deal with cheap stainless.
 
I’m with you K813zra....I’m already buying a Chosera or Cerax 1000 and a Suehiro Rika 5k stone for my J-knives, just looking to add that coarse stone to round out my starter set. I’m definitely not looking to buy separate stones just for my westerns
 
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