Quantcast
mono v clad; ground v forged - Page 2
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 63

Thread: mono v clad; ground v forged

  1. #11
    Senior Member/ Internet Hooligan
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,090
    This is gonna sound like hippie mumbo-jumbo, so at the risk of completely embarrassing myself I'm gonna say that to me, clad knives feel a bit flatter in use--that there's less tactile feedback to the cuts than with a comparable mono-steel knife. It's not a deal breaker, and Carter's clad knives are dreamy... but I'd just rather have the same knife without the stupid cladding gumming things up.

    And no, I haven't been smoking dope.

  2. #12
    Mike Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Jackson, MI.
    Posts
    1,529
    This is mainly for forged steel. Its not ALL about grain refinement. Once a steel reaches critical temperature, the carbide matrix goes into solution and grain growth starts to happen. By starting at just below critical(1414 in simple carbon) and reducing the heat each time you normalize the steel, you are actually putting the carbide solution into a microstructure that is less stressed and reducing the grains. After the last normalizing heat(usually 3) you can quench and essentially lock in the grain size and structure. After that, bring back to above critical for the amount of time you need(varies depending on the steel), and quench your final quench. Now what you have done is reduced the stress on the steel and got the grain size refined back down again...Now you start with smaller grains than you would after forging, to start your final heat for final quench. Simple carbon steels can have huge grains....We have no control over what the steel mill does as they are producing the steels....Some hot rolled stock is damn near impossible to drill through in the state you get it in, ie: flat stock....It is generally poured somewhere around the 33-3600 degree range, ran through the mill and hot formed...then left to cool which can introduce a small measure of air/work hardening.

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    234
    Quote Originally Posted by Vertigo View Post
    This is gonna sound like hippie mumbo-jumbo, so at the risk of completely embarrassing myself I'm gonna say that to me, clad knives feel a bit flatter in use--that there's less tactile feedback to the cuts than with a comparable mono-steel knife. It's not a deal breaker, and Carter's clad knives are dreamy... but I'd just rather have the same knife without the stupid cladding gumming things up.

    And no, I haven't been smoking dope.
    I find this as well, someone once compared it to using a condom. For this reason I prefer monosteel knives. Better feed back when cutting, I can sharpen it to very extreme asymmetry without having to constantly work on moving back the cladding. All around I'd just prefer a mono-steel knife.

    All that being said I do love my Moritaka; however when his life ends he's being replaced with a mono-steel knife. Most likely a Yoshihiro from Jon, or maybe I'll finally go laser.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Citizen Snips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    454
    i have turned the page on clad knives. i used to be a big fan and believer but recently i feel as though they have characteristics that dont fit my bill anymore.
    It's like my ol' grandpappy used to say; "The less one makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to look a fool in retrospect"

  5. #15
    Senior Member Iceman91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Detroit, MI
    Posts
    266
    I have had quite a few monosteel knives, and recently purchased my first clad knife (Carter). As far as working in a kitchen, for me, clad is the way to go. When i am super busy and dont have the time to wipe off my monosteel knives with every use, i was getting tiny rust spots on them. That's after i already had a patina on them. With my clad i never have to worry about it. I haven't noticed any difference in feel or performance with clad either.

    Mike

  6. #16
    Senior Member Cadillac J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Detroit
    Posts
    621
    I prefer mono-steel all the way, but not because of anything related to forging or grind.

    Cladded knives have a muted or dulled feeling when makings cuts to me...less feedback and don't feel as good.

    kcma had the best analogy when he said "clad knives are like wearing condom"

  7. #17
    WillC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    herefordshire uk
    Posts
    1,578
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but when you like your steel as hard as 61/62hrc as I think many here do, the cladding acts to toughen up the blade and support the edge, (depending on how close to the edge it comes). I'm moving towards using different carbon steels, (not mild) in place of a differentially hardened/or tempered blade. This is done with sword constructions allot, and gives you a safety measure against receiving a blade back in several pieces, if extreme edge hardness is required.

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    217
    Does damping really occur with properly laminated blades? I'm still not sure. A difference would arise from disparity in elastic modulus between composite materials, which shouldn't be much different between two steels. Are people using poorly laminated blades or is it just a placebo effect? The difference in vibration could also be observed through sound (also vibration). Anyone tried ringing their blades to listen for differences?

  9. #19
    Senior Member mpukas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Gyptuckey, CO
    Posts
    797
    I definitely notice a muted feeling on my clad blades, both in terms of cutting feedback and sound when sharpening (not that the later matters at all). The heavier the knife, the more muted. My Moritaka 270 kiri-gyuto is like a big sharp club. The Blazen is a nice compromise between being super-sturdy but not clunky and light and nimble with good feedback. No fear of bending the blade by smacking garlic w/ the side. But I grab the laser 98% of the time; I'll use one of my other knives occasionally just for comparison, and always come around to preferring the mono laser.

    I've not found a mono steel knife, outside of a honyaki, that is harder than 61-62. Seems to me if you want to go higher/harder than that you're looking at a clad blade, like JKI's Heiji line (again discounting a honyaki).

  10. #20
    WillC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    herefordshire uk
    Posts
    1,578
    It certainly not a placebo effect, it can be a genuine tool. If your core material reaches say 62hrc at a given temper temperature and your cladding is at a relatively tough springy 55 hrc. I'd say thats a very good thing in overall blade strength. I'm not convinced how much it would support the edge, it would have to be really close to do anything to prevent small chips
    Not that your going into battle with a kitchen knife or anything but accidents can happen. If you look at some Seax and sword constructions, they used up to 3 or 4 different types of steel to achieve a differential hardness, soft on the spine, medium in the middle and high carbon edge. Granted they did not have the benefit of modern steels but I believe used right it can be a genuine tool. I'm sure some are intended more for "the look" than anything else.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts