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Thread: mono v clad; ground v forged

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac J View Post
    ...kcma had the best analogy when he said "clad knives are like wearing condom"
    I guess a lot of the finest sushi chefs in the world are missing out, aren't they? I hope kc can help them.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larrin View Post
    Does damping really occur with properly laminated blades? I'm still not sure. A difference would arise from disparity in elastic modulus between composite materials, which shouldn't be much different between two steels. Are people using poorly laminated blades or is it just a placebo effect? The difference in vibration could also be observed through sound (also vibration). Anyone tried ringing their blades to listen for differences?
    I notice degrees of difference based off the quality of the cladding, sure. The Hiro AS I used felt like a wet burlap sack, whereas the aforementioned Carters felt much more visceral and responsive. That could also be a byproduct of their hugely disparate thicknesses. Either way, it's nothing I've spent a lot of time contemplating, just a few casual observations that steered my general purchasing preference.

  3. #23
    I'm fine with either, have both and enjoy both.
    "God sends meat and the devil sends cooks." - Thomas Deloney

  4. #24
    The more I play with knives, the more I love sanmai

    * Protects the brittle core steel
    * creates non-reactive surface to knife

    What Ive heard is that
    * the core steel is more expencive and harder to finish.

    I really like my Carter sanmai, however Im having really high expectations to my next sanmai....

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by raisedbybrocks View Post
    It certainly not a placebo effect, it can be a genuine tool. If your core material reaches say 62hrc at a given temper temperature and your cladding is at a relatively tough springy 55 hrc. I'd say thats a very good thing in overall blade strength. I'm not convinced how much it would support the edge, it would have to be really close to do anything to prevent small chips
    Not that your going into battle with a kitchen knife or anything but accidents can happen. If you look at some Seax and sword constructions, they used up to 3 or 4 different types of steel to achieve a differential hardness, soft on the spine, medium in the middle and high carbon edge. Granted they did not have the benefit of modern steels but I believe used right it can be a genuine tool. I'm sure some are intended more for "the look" than anything else.
    I'm aware of the difference in hardness, I'm saying damping would occur through elastic modulus differences which are unaffected by hardness. I think the whole debate over a "dead" feeling are from poorly laminated blades. A properly laminated blade should have no such difference.

  6. #26
    WillC's Avatar
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    Elastic modulus differences. mmmm I won't pretend to know what that is, but imho, a good weld is a good weld, i've never noticed any loss of feel to a blade in san mai. Having said that the layers in san mai are less consolidated than in damascus so extra care must be taken that the weld is good, any flaw will show up on grinding, after HT if not before however. I suspect there would have to be de-lamination to effect the feel of the blade.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Cadillac J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tk59 View Post
    I guess a lot of the finest sushi chefs in the world are missing out, aren't they? I hope kc can help them.
    Talking about double beveled knives only, this doesn't apply for yanagis or other single bevels.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac J View Post
    Talking about double beveled knives only, this doesn't apply for yanagis or other single bevels.
    Why?

  9. #29
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    Based on my limited experience the way the cladding is on a kasumi knife(mostly on one side only) and the very thin edge provide more feed back than sandwich construction. Can't say why but there is far more feedback from my Kiritsuke than from the Moritaka Kiri-gyuto

  10. #30
    Senior Member Justin0505's Avatar
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    I've done a bit of reading about elastic modulus recently (thanks to Larrin), and it also still blows my mind that it's not effected by HT. However, different steels do have different elastic properties... So it doesnt shock me that a blade made of a composite of steels "A" and "B" would have different harmonics and transmit vibration differently than one made of just steel "A".

    However, it also seems obvious that factors like thickness, grind, balance point, handle construction and material would all be significant attributing factors to what often gets attributed just to blade construction. Until
    Someone makes some knifes that are identical in every way but blade construction, this is going to be just another matter of personal opinion and taste. -but I guess that's really all that matter in the end.

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