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newt111

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I'm in the U.S., interested in a Gyuto.
Leaning towards HAP40 and R2, but if they can't cut through something like this without chipping I'll need something else.
https://youtu.be/Uvh_fHaQFdE?t=2m40s

Right handed, handle doesn't matter

210-240mm

Stainless-- preferred

budget- $300

It will be used in a high volume sushi bar, mostly for cutting rolls, slicing raw fish, and light vegetable prep. Also will be breaking down whole yellowtail, removing rib bones from salmon etc. Also scaling fish Japanese style (cutting the scales off as opposed to using a tool)

I'm coming from a Mac pro Santoku and crappy Suisin Inox sujihiki

grip is mostly hammer, with some pinch, depending on the task

Cutting will be push cut, slice and chop mostly. maybe a little bit of rocking


The number one requirement is edge retention and durability (chip resistance)
Nothing else really matters



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
synthetic cutting board

Do you sharpen your own knives? Yes



Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? no



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
 
You might want a mioroshi deba....or a gyuto and a dedicated slicer long enough to handle skinning big fillets?
 
StonedEdge said:
You might want a mioroshi deba....or a gyuto and a dedicated slicer long enough to handle skinning big fillets?
Click to expand...

Ok, I'm interested in the Mioroshi, but for know let's forget about breaking down whole fish and go for general all purpose (cutting rolls, raw fish and light veggie prep)

I'm looking to replace my Mac pro AND the slicer with one knife. The Mac holds a decent edge, the slicer I have not so much. For example, I cut out the rib bones on 4 salmon, and the slicer becomes too dull to scale a yellowtail.
 
It's hard to find something that will do it all well. I have a blue 1 240 funiyuki (quite thin) that I apply a microbevel to. It handles small bones well but larger ones will microchip. I do use it for some veg prep as well, but steering can be an issue if you are not used to the single bevel. I do find that with practice, the steering is resolved. It is perfect for portioning fish and works almost as good as a yanagiba for sashimi. Keep in mind this is all from a home kitchen.
 
I decided on the Gesshin Kagero. I decided to focus on edge retention for cutting sushi, sashimi and light vegetable prep. I'll be looking into replacing my Mac Deba with a yo-deba or moroshi in the future. But for now I'm good. $280 is enough for one week ;)
 
Good call on the Kagero for general tasks.

But no such thing as a crappy Suisin. SIH or Western?
 
"It will be used in a high volume sushi bar, mostly for cutting rolls, slicing raw fish, and light vegetable prep. Also will be breaking down whole yellowtail, removing rib bones from salmon etc. Also scaling fish Japanese style (cutting the scales off as opposed to using a tool)"

I have a hard time envisioning one gyuto handing this.
Me...at least 2 Debas 165 and larger, Yanagi 240+ and Usuba (or Nakiri).
Or Deba, Yanagi and Santoku.
 
To cut rolls and to slice raw fish, get a short yanagiba.
Many choices.
To break down yellow tail, remove rib bones from Salmon and light vegetable prep, get a Masahiro virgin carbon 24cm gyuto, excellent for both fish and veg tasks.
With 300 dollars, you can get both knives
 
daveb said:
Good call on the Kagero for general tasks.

But no such thing as a crappy Suisin. SIH or Western?
Click to expand...
http://www.korin.com/HSU-INSU-240?sc=27&category=8549829

It's sharp, but edge retention is horrible. Basically, after removing rib bones from salmon, just that little bit of contact with the edge makes it nearly impossible to scale a yellowtail without resharpening. This is only after 4-6 salmon. I'm also way too busy on fish days to touch it up during the shift. For sashimi it's great though.



supersayan3 said:
To cut rolls and to slice raw fish, get a short yanagiba.
Many choices.
To break down yellow tail, remove rib bones from Salmon and light vegetable prep, get a Masahiro virgin carbon 24cm gyuto, excellent for both fish and veg tasks.
With 300 dollars, you can get both knives
Click to expand...

There is no way I'm using a yanagiba to cut rolls. I've tried it and I don't see how anyone can do this efficiently and quickly. We are way too busy to "play" with our food. Also, I'm not a fan of virgin carbon. Already picked out my Gyuto anyway (comes in today!)

I have the right tools already for yellowtail, but I was just trying to cut down on the # of knives used during the day.
 
I suspect there may be a misunderstanding of "bones". The Pin bones need to be removed by Tweezers. The larger the fish and bigger the pin bones, the bigger the tweezers needed. The only alternative to that is to cut them out but often losing some meat, a method used sometimes on smaller fish for the sake of saving time. But with Rib bones, you need a Deba to cut through them to release the fillet from the backbone. I can not imagine ever using anything other than a Deba for this purpose. I would never cut through large rib bones with a gyuto for fear of chipping the edge. With some species of fish, such as salmonids, you can "shave" under the rib cage to release as well.
 
mantrarxidia said:
I don't work with fish a lot and I haven't used a deba, but I don't see how you can remove the bones from your fillets without using tweezers. Can you show me a video of what you mean?
Click to expand...
Depends greatly on the fish you're breaking down. I meant that if you plan on cutting through fish bones (ribs, pins) then a gyuto might not be optimal as it may lead to micro chips

A deba can stand up to that kinda thing to a higher degree than a gyuto or petty, especially with a micro bevel or a more obtuse sharpening angle.

To remove pin bones I agree that nothing beats tweezers

Edit: KenHash beat me to the answer
 
No disrespect, but I had been working with Sushi chefs, in a very hectic, class restaurant and all of them were cutting the rolls with short yanagibas.
i dont want to use names, but i am talking about some of the top chefs in the world of sushi.
They cant be wrong.
i dont have sushi experience, but trust them.
Enjoy the new knife :)
 
I don't go through bones but I see what you mean. I recommended the victorinox fillet knife because the way we do it (it's how I was taught) is

a) diagonal cut (towards the head), just behind the head, then move towards the tail keeping the knife basically on the bone.

b) down behind the head to release it from the head, slice from the head to the central bone, lift and slice to release it.

both ways are easier with a flex knife, I would definitely not recommend going through bone with that knife though

*for fish such as salmon
 
supersayan3 said:
No disrespect, but I had been working with Sushi chefs, in a very hectic, class restaurant and all of them were cutting the rolls with short yanagibas.
i dont want to use names, but i am talking about some of the top chefs in the world of sushi.
They cant be wrong.
i dont have sushi experience, but trust them.
Enjoy the new knife :)
Click to expand...
I know what you mean. Been to some very well regarded sushi spots and always check out the people working the kitchen. Most of them use a yanagiba for almost anything, or a short suji I've noticed, I've seen someone even use a nakiri solely to cut rolls (including fried crab rolls, shell and all)

So long story short there is no single correct way to use a knife.
 
No one I've seen personally uses a yanagi for rolls, unless they can't sharpen a chef knife properly . I've tried, but in order to get good at it I'd have to relearn everything, starting slow and building up speed over time. After 10 years of doing it one way, I have no interest in learning it.
 
People who work in restaurants do weird stuff. For example, using a exclusively a 1k grit stone on both sides of a single bevel knife. Most of these people know about cooking, not knife used and/or maintenance. Whatever works.
 
StonedEdge said:
People who work in restaurants do weird stuff. For example, using a exclusively a 1k grit stone on both sides of a single bevel knife. Most of these people know about cooking, not knife used and/or maintenance. Whatever works.
Click to expand...

True that. I suppose if you use the “wrong knife” and sharpen or maintain it the “wrong way” but are able to get a good result - the food cooks good and looks good - then it’s not really “wrong,” maybe suboptimal at worst.
 
Everyone I am aware of uses a yanagiba to cut hosomaki and futomaki. But they all use a damp cloth buy the side for the blade. I believe that's normal. In the Kansai area where pressed sushi (oshizushi/hakozushi) is made and cut in square/rectangular shape, there is a knife designed for cutting these types of sushi.

StonedEdge said:
People who work in restaurants do weird stuff. For example, using a exclusively a 1k grit stone on both sides of a single bevel knife. Most of these people know about cooking, not knife used and/or maintenance. Whatever works.
Click to expand...

if they were "sharpening" both sides then yes that would be weird. But if they were doing a few strokes to de-burr the "flat" side (which is really slightly convex) after sharpening the beveled side, that is normal practice.
 
KenHash said:
Everyone I am aware of uses a yanagiba to cut hosomaki and futomaki. But they all use a damp cloth buy the side for the blade. I believe that's normal. In the Kansai area where pressed sushi (oshizushi/hakozushi) is made and cut in square/rectangular shape, there is a knife designed for cutting these types of sushi.



if they were "sharpening" both sides then yes that would be weird. But if they were doing a few strokes to de-burr the "flat" side (which is really slightly convex) after sharpening the beveled side, that is normal practice.
Click to expand...
Urasuki with a 1k stone couple times a day every day = ruining your knife
 
newt111 said:
No one I've seen personally uses a yanagi for rolls, unless they can't sharpen a chef knife properly . I've tried, but in order to get good at it I'd have to relearn everything, starting slow and building up speed over time. After 10 years of doing it one way, I have no interest in learning it.
Click to expand...

I havent met yet better sharpners than them, i wish i was still working with them and send you photos of the knives.
all of their sharpening techniques applied for single edges.
i wish i could had shown you abused sujihikis from the previous team, that they converted to single edges with blade road, entirely even blade roads, better not even the Shigefusa guys can do(blasphemer i know).
As i told you they are top chefs with international prizes in Japan.
Yanagiba is single edge and narrow, so it does clean cuts.
Anyway, since you are 10 years in the sushi kitchen, respect, everyone has their own ways.
 
supersayan3 said:
I havent met yet better sharpners than them, i wish i was still working with them and send you photos of the knives.
all of their sharpening techniques applied for single edges.
i wish i could had shown you abused sujihikis from the previous team, that they converted to single edges with blade road, entirely even blade roads, better not even the Shigefusa guys can do(blasphemer i know).
As i told you they are top chefs with international prizes in Japan.
Yanagiba is single edge and narrow, so it does clean cuts.
Anyway, since you are 10 years in the sushi kitchen, respect, everyone has their own ways.
Click to expand...

I think the difference is that they were trained from the start to use a yanagi, I've always used chef's knives. I used my yanagi a little the other night, and for me it's really awkward.

With employee reviews coming soon, I need to focus on speed, not trying new things. I really want that raise!


(I said before that only bad chefs used yanagis for maki, what I meant is that these guys were new, and the yanagi is usually their sharpest knife because they don't know how to sharpen a chef's knife properly yet.)

edit: Is that knife in the op video a Mioroshi?
 
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