Looking for a knife

Got a Tojiro DP Santoku, and while I enjoy it I'd like a Gyutou. I've been eyeing a Tanaka, but I know you guys are experts in the field. I'd like a Damascus one since I'd like something eye-catching on my collection BUT I will give priority to sharp/quality over the damascus beauty.

Style? - Japanese (tojiro, shun, miyabi, tanaka, etc)

Steel? - Not an expert here...I'd like something that would retain edge good. Don't mind maintenance.

Handle? - Bit partial to western, but also like japanese. As long as it doesn't look or feel like the Glogal Sai...thing is ugly.

Grip? Both

Length? Between 240 and 270mm

Care? I'm gonna learn whetstones. Would be great is it would allow for honing rod (ceramic or whatever) for keeping it up, but i'll whetstone it.

Budget? Less than $200

Bump for help!

abepaniagua said:

Bump for help!

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I think that people are finding it hard to make a recommendation because you haven't given enough information. If you fill out the FULL questionairre you might get a bit more help. It's kinda hard to give good advice without knowing answers to questions such as:
Where you live,
Whether you are a pro chef or a home user,
Which cutting motions you use,
Which grip you use (by "both", do you mean pinch, hammer or finger point?),
What food you will be using the knife on and
What sort of cutting surface you will use.

When you say you want maximum edge retention, do you want this at the expense of easy sharpenability?

Just to be clear, are you prepared to look after a non stainless knife?

I think it's probably reasonable to say that I would not use a sharpening steel on any of the knives that I would recommend here. The steel in vood knives is too hard and brittle and you will cause microchipping. And maybe damage your sharpening steel.

You will pay a big premium for fancy finishes like damascus cladding, without any improvement in performance. Best to stick to finding a good cutter at your price point.

Tanaka makes some great cutters at a very good value price point. Great bang for buck. There are several other knives that are often recommended at this price point but we need more info before making a recommendation.

Thanks for pointing that out. Here it is:

What country are you in?
USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Chef's knife/Gyuto

Are you right or left handed? Left-handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Any.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 210mm-240mm

Do you require a stainless knife? Not necessarily. I have no issues at taking care of a non-SS knife.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? $200 (a bit more for shipping if necessary)

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)?
All-around knife. Veggies, poultry, beef.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
An awful Hampton forge, but I have a Tojiro DP santoku that I like to use.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
Pinch and hammer.

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
Pushcut, slice, chop.

What improvements do you want from your current knife?
Looking for a really sharp knife, with good sharp retention but not impossible or really hard to sharpen.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Damascus or Kurouchi. A handle that isn't ugly looking as some Global Knives. Honestly I want a good looker hehe.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
I like a bit on the heavy side but I've gotten used to both light and heavy knives.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Sharp OOTB, don't mind reactivity.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Maybe sharpen twice a year? Not sure here.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
I use plastic mainly but buying wood endgrain.

Do you sharpen your own knives?
I want to.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? Yes



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I see most good knives cannot be honed with a steel or ceramic rod. How would you keep the edge straight or sharp in-between sharpening sessions?

The harder steel does not roll the edge like most mass marketed knives, most German knives for example, so there is no need to refine the edge using a steel or ceramic rod. And as mentioned previously, you can actually damage your knife if you do steel it. To refresh the sharpness of your edge between sharpening you can strop on a water stone or stropping material such as leather, balsa wood, etc. (loaded or unloaded). There is a lot of information on this site and elsewhere about stropping.

mc2442 said:

The harder steel does not roll the edge like most mass marketed knives, most German knives for example, so there is no need to refine the edge using a steel or ceramic rod. And as mentioned previously, you can actually damage your knife if you do steel it. To refresh the sharpness of your edge between sharpening you can strop on a water stone or stropping material such as leather, balsa wood, etc. (loaded or unloaded). There is a lot of information on this site and elsewhere about stropping.

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Got it! Sounds perfect. Now will wait for some recommendations.

So I've been looking that price range too and things that come up are the Tanaka, Wakui and things like the Itinnomon. You're after a lefty knife which I understand can hike the price a bit. The thread I did like this got some good replies and might help you:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/35472-OK-which-gyuto-of-these?highlight=

rickg17 said:

So I've been looking that price range too and things that come up are the Tanaka, Wakui and things like the Itinnomon. You're after a lefty knife which I understand can hike the price a bit. The thread I did like this got some good replies and might help you:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php/35472-OK-which-gyuto-of-these?highlight=

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I would actually have no problem with a 50-50 profile. The wakui is right at $210 without shipping. It seems it'll be between the Tanaka Blue 2 Nashiji, Gesshin Uraku, Munetoshi Kurouchi, Tanaka Blue 2 Damascus or Kurouchi. If Wakui is far better, it might be worth adding $20-30 more...

abepaniagua said:

I would actually have no problem with a 50-50 profile. The wakui is right at $210 without shipping. It seems it'll be between the Tanaka Blue 2 Nashiji, Gesshin Uraku, Munetoshi Kurouchi, Tanaka Blue 2 Damascus or Kurouchi. If Wakui is far better, it might be worth adding $20-30 more...

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Seems like nice shortlist.

Knives who are said to have a symmetric edge rarely have one, and if they have, the blade's geometry still isn't. Just asking for steering and sticking problems. You may consider a blade with an inverted geometry for lefties. Both Misono and Masahiro make them. For Misono ask Mr Iwahara, Koki @ kencrest.us , owner of Japanesechefsknife.com
For Masahiro
https://www.knifemerchant.com/products.asp?manufacturerID=11&mtype=1

abepaniagua said:

I would actually have no problem with a 50-50 profile. The wakui is right at $210 without shipping. It seems it'll be between the Tanaka Blue 2 Nashiji, Gesshin Uraku, Munetoshi Kurouchi, Tanaka Blue 2 Damascus or Kurouchi. If Wakui is far better, it might be worth adding $20-30 more...

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Ah I was thinking about the wake and others in the 210 since you said 210-240. The 210 can be had for $170 before shipping. Regardless, I think that list has a bunch of good knives on it and it's mostly taking the plunge.

The Wakui has a great very thin behind the edge grind and very good profile with a long flat spot. It takes an edge like nothing else with ease, but edge retention is mediocre.

Tanaka B2 takes a similar edge just as easy and has slightly better edge retention. Almost as thin behind the edge and edge profile is a continues curve. Both are sturdy middleweights and weigh about the same.

For better edge retention check out the Takamura R2 (210 only) which is a laser and needs no introductions. There’s the Syousin Suminigashi R2 which is a another sturdy middleweight, but with a taller profile. It has a continues curve edge profile and it’s nice and thin behind the edge. A bit over budget though.

I love my Munetoshi. I don’t have any of the others to compare directly, but from my admittedly sparse experience I’d say the Mune has better edge retention than other white steel knives. It’s a fantastic performer for its price point. It is however a wide bevel that is not completely symmetrical; I’m not sure if it’s considered a right handed grind or if left-handed ones are available so you’d have to ask Maxim.

rickg17 said:

Ah I was thinking about the wake and others in the 210 since you said 210-240. The 210 can be had for $170 before shipping. Regardless, I think that list has a bunch of good knives on it and it's mostly taking the plunge.

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Thanks for the advice. Taking the plunge is exciting but wanna be sure about my purchase haha.

JaVa said:

The Wakui has a great very thin behind the edge grind and very good profile with a long flat spot. It takes an edge like nothing else with ease, but edge retention is mediocre.

Tanaka B2 takes a similar edge just as easy and has slightly better edge retention. Almost as thin behind the edge and edge profile is a continues curve. Both are sturdy middleweights and weigh about the same.

For better edge retention check out the Takamura R2 (210 only) which is a laser and needs no introductions. There’s the Syousin Suminigashi R2 which is a another sturdy middleweight, but with a taller profile. It has a continues curve edge profile and it’s nice and thin behind the edge. A bit over budget though.

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The takamura seems to be on par with the others. Thanks for the info about the other 2. Do you know anything about the Munetoshi?

GorillaGrunt said:

I love my Munetoshi. I don’t have any of the others to compare directly, but from my admittedly sparse experience I’d say the Mune has better edge retention than other white steel knives. It’s a fantastic performer for its price point. It is however a wide bevel that is not completely symmetrical; I’m not sure if it’s considered a right handed grind or if left-handed ones are available so you’d have to ask Maxim.

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Talked to him. He said it is close to 50/50 but to anyways make a note on the purchase and he'll pick the best for me.

So I basically narrowed it down to these:

- Tanaka Blue 2 Nashiji
- Gesshin Uraku
- Munetoshi Kurouchi (recommended by panda)
- Tanaka Blue 2 Damascus
- Tanaka Blue 2 Kurouchi
- Wakui Gyuto White 2 Stainless Clad (This can be bought from Epicurean Edge/Bernal in 210mm with Octagon Handle, 240mm with ebony D handle, or 210mm from K+S...EE seems cheaper) (recommended by panda)
- Yoshikane 210mm Gyuto Shirogami Tsuchime HO

What you guys think?

abepaniagua said:

So I basically narrowed it down to these:

- Tanaka Blue 2 Nashiji
- Gesshin Uraku
- Munetoshi Kurouchi (recommended by panda)
- Tanaka Blue 2 Damascus
- Tanaka Blue 2 Kurouchi
- Wakui Gyuto White 2 Stainless Clad (This can be bought from Epicurean Edge/Bernal in 210mm with Octagon Handle, 240mm with ebony D handle, or 210mm from K+S...EE seems cheaper) (recommended by panda)
- Yoshikane 210mm Gyuto Shirogami Tsuchime HO

What you guys think?

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Get them all!...Really,you sure do not make it easy.

Dang, now I want to add the Ikazuchi 210mm super blue too.

The Ikazuchi is a real laser, much thinner spine than most knives you considered above

Benuser said:

Knives who are said to have a symmetric edge rarely have one, and if they have, the blade's geometry still isn't. Just asking for steering and sticking problems. You may consider a blade with an inverted geometry for lefties. Both Misono and Masahiro make them. For Misono ask Mr Iwahara, Koki @ kencrest.us , owner of Japanesechefsknife.com
For Masahiro
https://www.knifemerchant.com/products.asp?manufacturerID=11&mtype=1

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My Wakui's have a true 50/50 geometry and edge.

StonedEdge said:

The Ikazuchi is a real laser, much thinner spine than most knives you considered above

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How's the food retention?

abepaniagua said:

So I basically narrowed it down to these:

- Tanaka Blue 2 Nashiji
- Gesshin Uraku
- Munetoshi Kurouchi (recommended by panda)
- Tanaka Blue 2 Damascus
- Tanaka Blue 2 Kurouchi
- Wakui Gyuto White 2 Stainless Clad (This can be bought from Epicurean Edge/Bernal in 210mm with Octagon Handle, 240mm with ebony D handle, or 210mm from K+S...EE seems cheaper) (recommended by panda)
- Yoshikane 210mm Gyuto Shirogami Tsuchime HO

What you guys think?

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I think you should listen to Benuser and buy a lefty knife. Both mentioned will be good for learning to sharpen. If you weren't lefty I'd suggest the blue2 Tanaka (damascus) but think you should try a left handed knife first...I'd probably go for the Misono myself but either option should be good. You can find J-knives with 50/50 edge but that's not the important part of the geometry...and really doesn't make sense since the knife itself won't be symmetrical...