Why so much love for ceramic rods vs steel?

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eazypeazy

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Looking into getting a better honing rod, and I see a lot of quality places seem to prefer ceramic rods over steel. What does ceramic rods have over steel? Some of the ceramic rods seem to have grits on them, are these similar to a diamond rod? Also, what's the deal with ribbed rods that have slightly raised lines on them; I thought I read somewhere to stay away from those, is that true?
 
You don't need either with good knives...what type knives do you have? I use a waterstone for touchups. Rods put a lot of pressure on a single part of the edge...that said, some pro chefs use ceramics for touch ups but if a home user you don't have the same speed requirements.
 
Are you trying to 're-align' the edge or to actually 'sharpen' it?

"Steels" typically are only good for re-aligning a dented or rolled edge in what most of us would consider soft or semi-soft blade steels. Victorinix kitchen knives come to mind as a classic for a sharpening steel.

I like ceramic rods or 'crossed sticks' for maintaining an edge between true resharpenings when I am using a harder steel like commonly seen in a good Gyuto.
 
Traditional steel rods reset edges that are out of true, who are slightly folded, as it happens with soft steel. Harder steel won't fold, it breaks, or chips as it is called here.
Grooves in a steel rod create a wire edge that will cut for a few strokes.
Both are to be avoided with good knives.
A ceramic rod will abrade a bit of the fatigued steel that caused the edge to fail. So far so good. But it will create a burr as well, and it takes quite some experience to get rid of that burr on a rod. When not used very carefully the rod will eventually change the edge's geometry.
I see a ceramic rod as an emergency solution in a professional environment. Better refresh the edge on the last stone used for sharpening. Just strop and deburr.
 
In addition to the already made excellent points I would also like to point out that the rockwell hardness of the honing rod itself has to be harder than the knife steel for it to have any effect at all. Previously these steel constructed rods may have been between 60-61 at the most which is enough to align the edge of a 56-58 hardness knife. They may make them higher now I think I saw a Wusthoff where they claimed 65. In any case the ceramic variety of rod is much harder than the steel variety. The Mac rod for example is like an 81 I think. The seiger ruby rod claims the sintered ruby is 200.

So basically if you are going to use a rod on a Japanese or high tech American made knife you have to use one that is harder than the knife. If the knife is harder than the rod it doesn't work. It might even damage the rod by shaving off it's material.
 
Alternatively there is the uber secret chinese technique of using the bottom of any ceramic bowl or dish as a sort of honing block
 
If you do decide to go for a ceramic rod, I found the (expensive) Mac black ceramic is much much better than the cheaper brandless ceramic rod from my local kitchen store. The Mac works, the cheapo doesn't. Not all ceramic is equal it would appear.
Only use it on my Sabatier, not on my Jknives, for the reasons given by the other members.
 
Have tried different ceramic rods with soft carbons like Sabs and slightly harder Sheffields. It works, but not for long. You start with an edge fresh from the stones and work on a crappy poly board -- the worst there is. After say 3/4 of an hour you notice serious performance loss and use the rod. Next stop will be after fifteen minutes.
Why? You have rebuilt an edge out of fatigued steel, steel that has failed.
At this stage, having probably gone too far, stropping and deburring on a medium-fine stone will completely restore the edge and its retention. Still better, do it on your finest stone -- meaning the last one used for sharpening -- as soon as you detect the slightest performance loss.
 
chinacats said:
You don't need either with good knives...
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exactly.

I did however fins some use for a mac (I think) ceramic rod. You can use it as a half sharpmaker if you dont have anything else (like my father), but you will have to use it that way too. it worked out quite well actually. I'd say its a about a 1,5k or so "stone"
 
Mainly ****** stainless ones for now, but plan on getting some nicer stuff in the future, so kinda planning ahead. I work in food, and I don't really have the space/time at work for a stone always, so a rod is probably best for me in most cases.
 
Butchers knives and chef-d-chef type
(beater) knives tend to take to steels
pretty well.
 
eazypeazy said:
Mainly ****** stainless ones for now, but plan on getting some nicer stuff in the future, so kinda planning ahead. I work in food, and I don't really have the space/time at work for a stone always, so a rod is probably best for me in most cases.
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You can use a Chosera 2k or so dry as well. Or a piece of Blue Belgian.
 
Dunno, going to a fine stone with a damaged edge seems to have a risk of leaving you with an even worse edge...
 
Get the smooth mac black ceramic, wouldn't recommend using the grooved part of it. It will work well with any knife you buy as the hardness is well above any knife steel. You CAN use this rod on high end knives including single bevels, just use edge trailing stropping motions, as long as you are not smaking the edge into the rod its more efficient than having a stone on your station as it saves space, is easier to use in said space and is not absorbent, as i'm sure everyone who cooks professionally or at home would not want food stuffs to soak into the stone making it a sanitation and mold growing issue.
 
Seems to me putting a honing rod to a single bevel would be a quick way to f it up...?
 
Don't know the hardness of Dickoron polishing steel, but measured lite strokes kept my carbon gyuto's going during long prep sessions on plastic boards. Did a lot of trial & error with steels over the years found that a few measured strokes on polishing steels works best. No groves on either steel or ceramic. Prefer the steel because it is bomb proof & works. Diamond steels throw in the trash can.

For home use if good knives don't need a steel at all. At work a small splash & go is better than any steel as eventually with a rod edge will get fatigued, only a stone will tune up the edge.
 
@Benuser even for home cooking, you want a solution that deescalates, not escalates the bluntness issue at hand :) Can only imagine how the pros feel about it...

Though apart from really soft simple knives, I have rarely seen a ceramic rod fix what a newspaper/balsa board to strop could not :)
 
LifeByA1000Cuts said:
@Benuser even for home cooking, you want a solution that deescalates, not escalates the bluntness issue at hand :) Can only imagine how the pros feel about it...

Though apart from really soft simple knives, I have rarely seen a ceramic rod fix what a newspaper/balsa board to strop could not :)
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Really don't understand. If the edge is damaged you will notice instantly that a very fine stone isn't enough. Reason to go to a coarser one.
 
I meant: Setting up a stone is much more of a workflow interruption than using a rod or strop, if you either need the knife and want to continue cooking or want to put it back in good working order and continue.

What I doubt is the blanket statement "harder steel doesn't roll, or is useless to hone/strop back once it has rolled" - I found that a-bit-too-thin hard carbon steel edges (think zero wide-bevel with a tiny primary bevel or even just a microbevel) often very much DO both roll and strop back into alignment easily... might be a case of the misalignment being not at the apex but a bit behind the edge, so approaching wire edge territory?
 
I've used Choseras 2&3k dry, even the Junpaku 8k, so no preparation at all. Not sure what means "a misalignment behind the edge" where the edge itself is still straight.
 
StonedEdge said:
Seems to me putting a honing rod to a single bevel would be a quick way to f it up...?
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Not really, as long as you are being as delicate with the rod as you would be on a very hard natural. Take a freshly sharpened usuba and do a bunch of knife work, no matter the quality it will eventually have trouble cutting through something with tough skin, like tomato. Take a smooth honing rod, like the black mac or ruby whatever, and delicately strop the micro bevel edge trailing, then strop ura side either flat or with a tinny angle, there will be a difference in cutting performance absolutely guaranteed no argument I have done it a million times.
 
No experience with single bevels here, but is was my understanding that deburring the ura was made with a very fine stone, 8k or so. Not with a 2k as your rods.
 
Benuser said:
No experience with single bevels here, but is was my understanding that deburring the ura was made with a very fine stone, 8k or so. Not with a 2k as your rods.
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the mac black is very smooth and in the 80s of HRC, Id say its well beyond 2k in "grit" and it doesn't remove metal to the naked eye. All your doing is moving microscopic burrs into realignment, any material whether smooth or textured that is harder than the knife steel itself will move the burs. And it doesn't matter if its single or double bevel because those are differences in geometry not metallurgy, so if you can hone a double bevel you can just as easily hone a single bevel.
 
I saw on the german forum some use a plain steel by dickoron with good results.
 
cheflivengood said:
the mac black is very smooth and in the 80s of HRC, Id say its well beyond 2k in "grit" and it doesn't remove metal to the naked eye. All your doing is moving microscopic burrs into realignment, any material whether smooth or textured that is harder than the knife steel itself will move the burs. And it doesn't matter if its single or double bevel because those are differences in geometry not metallurgy, so if you can hone a double bevel you can just as easily hone a single bevel.
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The manufacturer claims 81 rockwell and "approximately 2000 grit".
 
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