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Thread: Murray Carter Book

  1. #21
    Didn't check the link. Guess I was wrong!

    That's pretty nearly the exact method of another well known maker who has written extensively.

    You'll notice he cuts up 600 feet of hemp rope a year. He makes one knife a month. So, in the testing process for each knife, he must cut 50 feet of rope. If separated into three strands as explained, cutting 1/8" more off each time, you could get 288 cuts per foot of rope, or 14,400 cuts for 50 ft. of rope. Gee, that's a lot. Perhaps I've been to strict with my math, let's relax the standards to allow a few more knives per year, maybe some didn't get finished too, maybe some rope got wasted. Let's cut that figure in HALF. 7,200 cuts per knife. Now that sounds realistic.

    7,200 cuts at one cut per second would take 120 hours. That's two 60 hour weeks of cutting. With the at least nine or ten days to do the rest of the work, I hope he's getting paid at least $2200 ($10/hr.) for that one knife. And I hope he has a machine to do all that cutting; sounds like a recipe for carpal tunnel to me... 1,440 hours per year of sitting at the bench, cutting.

    That said, many makers such as Bill Burke, Ed Caffrey, Brian Tomberlin, as well as the author of the above (who I do owe some knowledge to) use triple quench and triple draw, among other techniques to get the most out of 52100. I use a fair amount of this steel myself, and triple quench/triple full draw, then soft-back draw it. (For sporting/utility knives.)

    When I use W2, I'm almost always going for a hamon, so it's triple normalized then single quenched, then double draw. So, a fair bit more simple for me.

  2. #22
    Who the crap are you talking about? Why is he cutting up so much rope?

  3. #23
    Got a slow internet connection. I'm trying to edit my posts so they make sense, but the forum software is making it hard.

    I'm talking about the author of that long article on the second page about heat treating. I decided to do the math, based on the information given in the description. I thought the results might help to illustrate why some question that extensive type of treatment of 52100.

  4. #24
    As for why he's doing all that cutting, your guess is as good as mine.

  5. #25
    I'm unable to edit given my connection, so to explain the above: I thought originally that the author was Ed Fowler. Then, I was informed that the author was indeed Bill Burke. Then, while editing a later post so that it made sense, a half-edited draft was saved, which also did not fully make sense. Suffice it to say that regardless of editing difficulties I still feel the body of my text to be relevant.

  6. #26
    The alleles created by mutation may be beneficial


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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem Straub View Post
    Didn't check the link. Guess I was wrong!

    That's pretty nearly the exact method of another well known maker who has written extensively.

    You'll notice he cuts up 600 feet of hemp rope a year. He makes one knife a month. So, in the testing process for each knife, he must cut 50 feet of rope. If separated into three strands as explained, cutting 1/8" more off each time, you could get 288 cuts per foot of rope, or 14,400 cuts for 50 ft. of rope. Gee, that's a lot. Perhaps I've been to strict with my math, let's relax the standards to allow a few more knives per year, maybe some didn't get finished too, maybe some rope got wasted. Let's cut that figure in HALF. 7,200 cuts per knife. Now that sounds realistic.

    7,200 cuts at one cut per second would take 120 hours. That's two 60 hour weeks of cutting. With the at least nine or ten days to do the rest of the work, I hope he's getting paid at least $2200 ($10/hr.) for that one knife. And I hope he has a machine to do all that cutting; sounds like a recipe for carpal tunnel to me... 1,440 hours per year of sitting at the bench, cutting.

    That said, many makers such as Bill Burke, Ed Caffrey, Brian Tomberlin, as well as the author of the above (who I do owe some knowledge to) use triple quench and triple draw, among other techniques to get the most out of 52100. I use a fair amount of this steel myself, and triple quench/triple full draw, then soft-back draw it. (For sporting/utility knives.)

    When I use W2, I'm almost always going for a hamon, so it's triple normalized then single quenched, then double draw. So, a fair bit more simple for me.
    Just a little math edit - 7,200 cuts at one cut per second would take two hours, not 120.

  7. #27
    Two hours, 120 hours, what's the difference?

    Actually, one decimal point makes a BIG difference... so that's two hours per knife of cutting, or a whopping total of 24 hours a year cutting. My foot is now in my mouth!

    Nevermind about that then. I do really wish there was some sort of totally neutral, comprehensive cutting test service with public boards, so we could all check whose knife scored how many points in what categories of cut. Sort of like the MMA ring was for martial arts- finally a public proving ground for HT methods and edge geometry.

  8. #28
    There was a guy who went to a bank to get a loan for setting up such a cutting test service. I believe the rejection letter just said "Nerd!" on it.

  9. #29
    Reinforcing my belief that banks are scum.

  10. #30
    It's acknowledged by those who know me that I'm a nerd...

    This is thread drift though. I'd like to read the Carter book as well. I'd really like it if he disclosed a good way to buy paper steels in the USA!

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