Char Siu : Looking for advice on cuts, marinades, cooking temps

Finding good char siu around where I live is tough (at least w/o an hour plus trip each way). So I've been making it at home. I've been using pork shoulder, a marinade from serious eats, and oven roasting. It is good enough for me, but I know I could always do it better.

The three things that I wrestle with are:

1.) how to cut the pork up for marinading and roasting. Currently I try to break down the butt into 4 or so pieces that keep together a muscle or group of muscles, instead of just slicing off 2x3 chunks. (all pieces are cut with the grain since I slice against the grain for serving). Is there a better way to break down the butt?

2.) My marinade is pretty simple, sherry, soy, honey, five spice, hoison. What else can I add to really get the flavor going? I've heard of adding honey to the leftover marinade, then reducing to get a sauce for glazing.

3.) Roasting temps. I've tried low temp until pork hits 165, then broil to glaze the sauce. I've tried 375 or 400 to temp with glazing intermittently. Just trying to nail down a strategy that will let me get it cooked and glazed, on a repeatable basis.

Any help would be appreciated.

erickso1 said:

Finding good char siu around where I live is tough (at least w/o an hour plus trip each way). So I've been making it at home. I've been using pork shoulder, a marinade from serious eats, and oven roasting. It is good enough for me, but I know I could always do it better.

The three things that I wrestle with are:

1.) how to cut the pork up for marinading and roasting. Currently I try to break down the butt into 4 or so pieces that keep together a muscle or group of muscles, instead of just slicing off 2x3 chunks. (all pieces are cut with the grain since I slice against the grain for serving). Is there a better way to break down the butt?

2.) My marinade is pretty simple, sherry, soy, honey, five spice, hoison. What else can I add to really get the flavor going? I've heard of adding honey to the leftover marinade, then reducing to get a sauce for glazing.

3.) Roasting temps. I've tried low temp until pork hits 165, then broil to glaze the sauce. I've tried 375 or 400 to temp with glazing intermittently. Just trying to nail down a strategy that will let me get it cooked and glazed, on a repeatable basis.

Any help would be appreciated.

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badass!!

i regret i didnt get my stepdad to hook me up with his secrets before he passed. gone forever!! (plus his drunken chicken )

no help. i'll watch this thread. right now ,i just road trip to Oakland.

You can get the flavor right but authentic char sui needs to be cooked vertically hanging from hooks cooked in a very humid environment. Its a tuffie

grew up eating this since I was a kid in hk.. make sure it's fatty... lean char siu is just plain awful

I know about the hooks and the vertical oven. Just not going to happen as a home cook at this point.

At this point a chunk of pork butt, that tastes good, is properly fatty, and I can pair with something like golden beets makes me happy.

I would never do pork tenderloin (or loin). Just to lean.

And I’ve made my own pickled carrots and daikon, but proper French bread is hard to come by down here. I can get the cilantro, jalapeño and kewpie, no problem, but the bread is an issue, hence no Bahn mi.

I made this, came out pretty well I thought

https://www.chefsteps.com/activities/char-siu-tender-cantonese-style-barbecued-pork

This should be handy for you

https://youtu.be/BRiJsTjJWbo

erickso1 said:

I know about the hooks and the vertical oven. Just not going to happen as a home cook at this point.

At this point a chunk of pork butt, that tastes good, is properly fatty, and I can pair with something like golden beets makes me happy.

I would never do pork tenderloin (or loin). Just to lean.

And I’ve made my own pickled carrots and daikon, but proper French bread is hard to come by down here. I can get the cilantro, jalapeño and kewpie, no problem, but the bread is an issue, hence no Bahn mi.

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i have the hooks. my friend made an offset box oven out of a clean 55 gallon drum. if he didnt live so far, i would love to try to use it for CharSui. he in the south bay san francisco, and i am north bay..he may as well be across the country with our traffic situation.

and you lost me..you're making the pork for BahnMi sandwiches? and you live in austin? there is no good light crusty bread available in austin? that is my favorite sandwich. (second is a Cubano)

Thanks guys. Donhoang, I've actually watched that video before. Watching it again made a couple things click, especially when breaking down the pork and what pieces to use and how to prepare them for roasting. Will post an update after roasting tonight.

Boom, I'm making the pork because it's amazing.

I was just talking through my uses of it and how I like to consume it. We used to have a trailer close by that made Bahn Mi with Char Siu in it, which I would get frequently. They moved into a brick and mortar then went out of business. The closest option for me is in north Austin which doesn't really work for me living in south Austin. So I've learned how to make all the components of the bahn mi. The missing component though is the good bread. They just don't do it right at the grocery stores. So I've moved on to having the pork with rice and golden beets, which on it's own is very satisfying.

erickso1 said:

Boom, I'm making the pork because it's amazing.

I was just talking through my uses of it and how I like to consume it. We used to have a trailer close by that made Bahn Mi with Char Siu in it, which I would get frequently. They moved into a brick and mortar then went out of business. The closest option for me is in north Austin which doesn't really work for me living in south Austin. So I've learned how to make all the components of the bahn mi. The missing component though is the good bread. They just don't do it right at the grocery stores. So I've moved on to having the pork with rice and golden beets, which on it's own is very satisfying.

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oh i get it!!

my body physique is sponsored by CharSiu!!

erickso1 said:

The missing component though is the good bread. They just don't do it right at the grocery stores.

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Try mexican bollilo or telera rolls. They're not as crusty as a vietnamese-style baguette but pretty close. Shouldn't be too hard to find a good mexican bakery in Austin.

Andrea Nguyen has a baguette recipe in her bahn mi recipe book, some discussion here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43586/vietnamese-baguette-banh-mi-recipe-question

Andrea's thoughts on bread options: http://www.vietworldkitchen.com/blog/2014/09/banh-mi-bread-buying-tips.html

Another make-at-home possibility would be steamed buns -- a/k/a 'peking duck' or momofuku buns -- although the end result would not be a sandwich, more like a chinese taco: https://food52.com/recipes/28063-momofuku-s-pork-buns

Pork belly char siu is pretty good too -- made siu yook once and did half the belly with a char siu marinade. Used it in fried rice and an awesome batch of char siu bao.

Baked at 300 on a raised rack. Took about an hour. Then glazed. Was getting late so I didn't get a chance to turn the broiler on. Sliced some and put it on some rice. Taste is great as usual (at least to me).

Hoison, honey, reg soy, sherry, 5 spice a tsp of oyster and a spoon full of sambal oelek (didn't have any other pepper product around). 48 hour marinade.

Next time I'd like to use dark soy, and maybe some molasses. More importantly I need to work on my finishing glazing under the broiler. I'm also going to break down my pork like the video linked above. Create thinner strips.

erickso1 said:

Baked at 300 on a raised rack. Took about an hour. Then glazed. Was getting late so I didn't get a chance to turn the broiler on. Sliced some and put it on some rice. Taste is great as usual (at least to me).

Hoison, honey, reg soy, sherry, 5 spice a tsp of oyster and a spoon full of sambal oelek (didn't have any other pepper product around). 48 hour marinade.

Next time I'd like to use dark soy, and maybe some molasses. More importantly I need to work on my finishing glazing under the broiler. I'm also going to break down my pork like the video linked above. Create thinner strips.

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that looks GREAT!!!

man, i am gonna try that. you have any quantities? (please)

Sambal? I thought Char Siu was Chinese? All versions of Char Siu I ever saw were rather sweet, not hot...and did not involve any sambal.

A key ingredient you are missing is red fermented bean curd. That's the color. My marinade is red bean curd, light soy, dark soy, 5 spice, and honey.

For that hook hanging part... I cook on a pit barrel cooker. Meat hooks on rebar, smokes around 285F.

Jovidah said:

Sambal? I thought Char Siu was Chinese? All versions of Char Siu I ever saw were rather sweet, not hot...and did not involve any sambal.

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I misspoke on the pepper. It was Vietnamese chili garlic sauce. I like heat and thought I'd give it a try. Didn't do much.

Boom, here is the marinade. From Serious Eats.

1/3 cup hoisin sauce
1/4 cup honey
1/4 cup soy sauce
3 tablespoons dry sherry
1 teaspoon Chinese five spice powder

I've since added about a teaspoon to a tablespoon of oyster sauce, and last time I added a teaspoon of garlic chili sauce.

I used a 2.5 lbs boneless pork but.

I/O Cook, I've read about the bean curd. I need to look more for it at my grocery store. I've also contemplated using my smoker to cook them in, but dang is the oven easy. I've also read of people hanging them on hooks within their oven. Before I do that I need to get in there and see what I would hang them from.

Eric, Looks respectable. Looks like your initial cook came out well.

Have you ever had authentic (grain of salt) Char Sui? If you have, you know that the texture is as important as the flavor. This serious eats is a solid American grocery store recipe. Many would be satisfied, but the curious mind and experienced pallet asks, can it be better. Can I achieve the textures and test of authenticity.

I've tinkered, a bit. Actually have a rig I set up I can put in my Kamato grill to be able to hang the pork. I've added rose water and MSG into my recipe. I'm going to see some Maltose. It comes out good, some would say great, I'd say decent, but I can buy better for $10.99 LBS at The Grand Asia, plus I get to choose the piece and they chop it right in front of me. CHOP CHOP CHOP

Cheer's your char Sui journey.

Mucho : I grew up in SE Washington. When I was a kid the only chinese bbq pork I had was from the Chinese Gardens in Pasco Washington. It was never anything I cared to find again once I left the area.


I didn't have realish bbq pork until I arrived in Austin. We got it from Din Ho up in north Austin. It was amazing. It's just to long a haul to get on a regular basis, which led to making it on my own.



I'm planning on improving the recipe over time. I'm going to try the rose water and sugar rub before marinating, I'm going to find some maltose, and work on getting the meat broken down correctly. It will be a work in progress.

Eric, Love it. I grew up in New England and that first shot above is what we ate too. Remember how dry it was. We used to cut them into block and stack them. of course this always accompanied the poo poo platter with the flaming sterno in the middle. What ever happened to the Poo Poo platter anyway.

I guess I never realized how lucky I am here in the Netherlands. Pretty much every town or city has at least one or multiple Chinese-Indian restaurants and good Cha Siu is pretty much a standard on the menu (and one of my favorites). The fermented red bean part also came up in on my usual 'actual authentic recipes' site I usually check for anything Asian. Don't you have something like azian supermarkets where you can buy all that sort of stuff? Regular supermarkets will always have a very limited selection, missing rare but key ingredients that are crucial for the authentic flavour.

Love this thread, will try some pork shoulder done char siu style and probably try my hand at making some Vietnamese style buns soon. My kind of meal! High calorie, meat-centric and messy.

StonedEdge said:

Love this thread, will try some pork shoulder done char siu style and probably try my hand at making some Vietnamese style buns soon. My kind of meal! High calorie, meat-centric and messy.

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i am going to try it this weekend.

i like making a version of "chinese burger" (it's the name we gave it as very young kids). i now know its called a "Gwa boa"..

With char siu there're are many variations! NYC char siu is different than Hawaii's char siu. I've had very tasty home cooked versions that use ketchup, made by my Chinese aunt and grandmothers. There's no "authentic" recipe.

Char siu literally means "fork burn roast," just make sure you have enough sugar in the marinade to caramelize/burn.

Pork butt and belly are good choices. For the past few years I've been using pork neck meat—very flavorful, quite dense, nicely marbled.

For my last few batches an unconventional*char siu pork*marinade (enough for 3.5 to 5 lbs. of meat. Great with pork or chicken): 3 tbsp. hoisin sauce; 3 tbsp. oyster sauce; 1/4 cup soy sauce; 2 cubes fu-chung fermented red bean curd, plus 2 tsp. liquid from jar; 1 shot glass bourbon; 6 cloves garlic, chopped; 2 tbsp. ginger, chopped; 1 tsp. sand ginger (galangal powder); 2 tbsp. honey; 2 tbsp. sugar; 1 tsp. smoked paprika; 1.5 tsp. five spice powder; 1 tbsp. Sriracha; 2 tbsp. sesame oil; 0.5 tsp. chili flakes; 0.5 tsp. black pepper./// Reserved marinade strained, brought to boil, cooled, to occasionally baste pork./// Roast at 375f, turning a few times, for about 45 minutes—or until slightly charred.


The ingredients you have in yours are fine—sherry, soy, honey, five spice, hoison. Have you tried Shao Xing rice wine instead of sherry? Also, consider red fermented beancurd.

I'll check our store for Shao Xing and red fermented bean curd. They have a pretty robust international section, so maybe. I'll also ask the butchers about pork neck. I've seen it used in others recipes, but I've never picked any up.

Shao Xing wine is that super perfumed, herbally bottle right? i have lots of it. i rarely use it. it is so heavy herb loaded. it smells like an old Chinese grandma arthritis rub.

boomchakabowwow said:

Shao Xing wine is that super perfumed, herbally bottle right? i have lots of it. i rarely use it. it is so heavy herb loaded. it smells like an old Chinese grandma arthritis rub.

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It's the bottle second from left, not perfumy—you're probably thinking of Mei Kuei Lu Chiew, which has rose essence in it. Shoa Xing is closer to Dry Sherry, which is often substituted.

About to marinate a version in a few moments.

Mine won’t be red.

my wife thinks she put my hooks into the donation box. that woman!!

i am going to go slow and low on my weber propane grill. i am going to try to cantilever hang them off that back raised rack.

Boom, I had the same idea about hanging them off the raised rack in my gas grill. I didn’t get a chance to check clearance yet though so let me know how it goes. Other thought was to hand them on the rotisserie attachment on gas grill.