Honesuki talk

I was breaking down a bird last night when I got to thinking about this. There’s all sorts of criteria that makes a gyuto great, and not just that but differences that are tailored to each individual and the tasks they do with them. Whether it be a laser or a workhorse or in between, food release, grind, steel type & HRC, the list goes on. In any case with a honesuki it’s only designed to do one task and I was curious what your opinions are for what makes the best Honesuki.
My thoughts are a steel that can get razor sharp easily, so a carbon of sorts, with a nice thick bevel and lower HRC so it’s not prone to chipping against accidental bone knicks. I would think an even double bevel would be easier to manouver than single.
I currently own a misono and I’m perfectly happy with it, but it doesn’t fit the criteria o listed above. Thoughts?

How doesn't the Misono fit the criteria? Apart from the more asymmetric bevel... which seems just fine to me. Make it like 99/1 (I think Theory has a video on it) for maximum ease of sharpening! I never really noticed any steering issues because of it.

My experience is limited - I own only 1 honesuki - but my selection criteria were a lot in the same direction.
-Carbon or semi-stainless (ease of sharpening is more important than hypothethical resistance to... reactive chickens?)
-not too thin & fragile (sooner or later it will hit bone and I rather have chips alongside my chicken, not in it)
-not too hard (I rather have it bend than chip)
-and double bevel.

All the fancy thin single bevel wa-honesukis certainly look nice....but I just don't see it being effective in its intended role. In the end it's still a boning knife. Function first, form second. For the same reason I gravitate more towards a nice stabilized yo handle with a bolster for easy sanitation and less likelihood of chicken gunk creeping under (or into) handles.

Yeah, I too like my carbon Misono. Sorry, nothing useful to add.

Misono Swedish here....breaks down 2 birds a week easy for the last 3 years not a single complaint. Would not change anything. It's no looker tho but that's doesn't affect performance.

K813zra said:

Yeah, I too like my carbon Misono. Sorry, nothing useful to add.

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Which do you use the 150 or 160? Which do you like better for this purpose, the Misono honesuki or the Fujiwara FKH 180 gyuyo?

dafox said:

Which do you use the 150 or 160? Which do you like better for this purpose, the Misono honesuki or the Fujiwara FKH 180 gyuyo?

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My FKH is really just my lazy petty-do-all type knife. I like the Misono better for breaking down birds, which I do a lot. Mine is the smaller one, which I thought was 145mm but it might be 150.

K813zra said:

Yeah, I too like my carbon Misono. Sorry, nothing useful to add.

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I ended up going with the Carbonext... but for some reason I've always remained 'curious' about the Misono.
Not that I'm not satisfied with the Carbonext; the steel is awesome and it always performed flawlessly. The only thing that stands out is that it's rather butt-heavy....but I'm still not sure whether that's actually a problem (so arguably it isn't). I guess the Misono is thicker (since it's heavier), but I have no idea whether that would work better or worse.

I guess that's also where this thread came from; it's pretty hard to try out different honesukis (few people own them, they never really show up in pass-arounds), and harder to legitimize / prioritize the purchase of multiple ones (like often happens with gyutos) so you end up in this weird curiosity-limbo where you're both satisfied with what you got (because it works) yet still wondering whether others would be better...

Jovidah said:

How doesn't the Misono fit the criteria? Apart from the more asymmetric bevel... which seems just fine to me. Make it like 99/1 (I think Theory has a video on it) for maximum ease of sharpening! I never really noticed any steering issues because of it.

My experience is limited - I own only 1 honesuki - but my selection criteria were a lot in the same direction.
-Carbon or semi-stainless (ease of sharpening is more important than hypothethical resistance to... reactive chickens?)
-not too thin & fragile (sooner or later it will hit bone and I rather have chips alongside my chicken, not in it)
-not too hard (I rather have it bend than chip)
-and double bevel.

All the fancy thin single bevel wa-honesukis certainly look nice....but I just don't see it being effective in its intended role. In the end it's still a boning knife. Function first, form second. For the same reason I gravitate more towards a nice stabilized yo handle with a bolster for easy sanitation and less likelihood of chicken gunk creeping under (or into) handles.

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Which knife would you consider a fancy thin single bevel wa Honesuki? I've been looking for one but all of the single bevel ones are on the thicker side. Isn't that the nature of the single bevel though? Has to be thick enough to accommodate the hollow ground ura I assume.

As far as sanitation is concerned, I've never had a problem contaminating any knife handle. I simply only ever touch the knife handle with my right hand and nothing else. The left only ever touches the food. Don't put the knife down on any contaminated surfaces. Piece of cake. I see people all the time putting the knife down, touching the raw chicken, beef, fish, then picking the knife back up with their freshly contaminated hand. *** is that?

Jovidah said:

I ended up going with the Carbonext... but for some reason I've always remained 'curious' about the Misono.
Not that I'm not satisfied with the Carbonext; the steel is awesome and it always performed flawlessly. The only thing that stands out is that it's rather butt-heavy....but I'm still not sure whether that's actually a problem (so arguably it isn't). I guess the Misono is thicker (since it's heavier), but I have no idea whether that would work better or worse.

I guess that's also where this thread came from; it's pretty hard to try out different honesukis (few people own them, they never really show up in pass-arounds), and harder to legitimize / prioritize the purchase of multiple ones (like often happens with gyutos) so you end up in this weird curiosity-limbo where you're both satisfied with what you got (because it works) yet still wondering whether others would be better...

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Exactly, I’m happy with what I got, and I’m not going to buy another until I ditch this one. I just thought perhaps there’s someone that can speak to which ones are better than others.
And as far as sharpening the my misono I’m not really sure if I have the right technique. I sharpen only from the one side with the bevel, and since it doesn’t have a legit ura I pass it on the other side at a very extreme angle just a few times enough to take off the burr

I've had several ... Shun Elite SG-2 double bevel, Masamoto Moly Single(ish) bevel, Mac Pro Moly (I think) single(ish) bevel and now I have a Marko 52100 Single ...

The shun was just too thin but still liked it / no issues with chipping (surprisingly) but could just be lucky. I liked the Masamoto a lot but it was a little short and had a bit too much belly. The Mac was nice just F&F not great ... The Marko has been very good and the only complaint would be it is very, very flat ... a very small curve would (IMO) help with getting boneless pieces off easier that the flat. The steel is great though and I have absolutely no issue with cutting up against (or through) bone (chicken anyway) - the 52100 doesn't blink. No pro here but I don't buy any chick parts so a couple a week isn't unusual which is nothing for pro's but hey ... I'm not sure I would feel as comfortable / confident breaking down without the thick single bevel ... although I do have a double bevel Garasuki from Randy that is bitchen to use - it is a brute though.

Danzo - Ura, or not, that technique works since you are effectively putting a small micro bevel on the chisel side with (IMO) is a good idea for the blade given it's use. Others will chime in though ...

Honesuki do not have ura, they are not true single bevel knives.

I've always wanted a honesuki, but can't justify it because I only do about 150 birds a year. Is it just purely for speed? or pleasure? I use a cheap thin 135mm AUS8 for it now, charming to use.

Only? I think 150 birds is enough justification. That is about three birds a week, averaged out.

Thx StoneEdge ... interestingly my Marko honesuki is hollow ground on the "flat' side (put a machinist square to it) but since my "knowledge" of true single bevel knives is greatly lacking I appreciate the clarity on the ura ... you got me pondering the difference between a proper ura and just a hollow ground single bevel so thx!

= ;-)

StonedEdge said:

Honesuki do not have ura, they are not true single bevel knives.

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A very useful thing on a honesuki, in my opinion, is a spine that has NOT been rounded. The "sharp" spine really helps scraping meat off the bone.

Overall, I prefer my honesuki to:

- Be semi-stainless (or well-patinated carbon) for ease of sharpening and low reactivity
- Have at least a portion (preferably closer to the handle) of the spine unrounded
- Have a thick spine
- Have a slight sweep, rather than a dead-flat profile
- Have a mini K-tip to maneuver in joints more easily
- Have a handle that does not get too slippery from all the fat/moisture
- Be at least 150mm on the edge

ThEoRy said:

Which knife would you consider a fancy thin single bevel wa Honesuki? I've been looking for one but all of the single bevel ones are on the thicker side. Isn't that the nature of the single bevel though? Has to be thick enough to accommodate the hollow ground ura I assume.

As far as sanitation is concerned, I've never had a problem contaminating any knife handle. I simply only ever touch the knife handle with my right hand and nothing else. The left only ever touches the food. Don't put the knife down on any contaminated surfaces. Piece of cake. I see people all the time putting the knife down, touching the raw chicken, beef, fish, then picking the knife back up with their freshly contaminated hand. *** is that?

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I don't have any direct examples of specific knives.... but I ran into several when I was shopping for a honesuki a couple of years ago (although they were always outside my budget anyway). While I agree that they were usually thick enough at the spine, the very nature of a single bevel tends lead to a rather thin fragile edge.... unless you sharpen it so steep that there is very little advantage of going single bevel and you might as well get a double bevel.
IIRC Matus had one of those and confirmed those 'expected issues' from experience, but I guess it's better if he shares his own experience instead of me trying to reproduce from memory.

Regarding sanitation. Not all of us are as well-trained... I'm just a home user who happens to debone all his own chicken. Although I do try to apply the same approach you do I still occasionally end up needing to do something 2-handed (even if its just something as silly as un-trussing a chicken while unpacking). I find it more practical to not have to be as stringent about 'keeping my handle squeeky clean' than to do everything one-handed. More power to you if you're more disciplined and experienced to do it all one-handed.

mise_en_place said:

A very useful thing on a honesuki, in my opinion, is a spine that has NOT been rounded. The "sharp" spine really helps scraping meat off the bone.

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This. How could I forget. Applies to all boning knives for me. Every discussion about 'edges holding up while scraping bones' is utterly meaningless if you don't round the spines, as you can just use the back of the knife to scrape bones. Honestly don't understand why so many people use the actual blade to scrape. Even if I went for a fancy custom honesuki I'd always want the spine with sharp corners for scraping. Heck I'd even consider sharpening part of them... For me a rounded spine on boning knives would detract from its utility.

Guys, honesuki are designed for that...scraping a thigh bone using the cutting edge (especially near the heal of the blade) will not harm the knife...it's not a gyuto, it's not a slicer. It's a crowbar made to disjoint birds. Use it as such.

Great post/summary here mise_en_place - nice note on the spine as well!

mise_en_place said:

A very useful thing on a honesuki, in my opinion, is a spine that has NOT been rounded. The "sharp" spine really helps scraping meat off the bone.

Overall, I prefer my honesuki to:

- Be semi-stainless (or well-patinated carbon) for ease of sharpening and low reactivity
- Have at least a portion (preferably closer to the handle) of the spine unrounded
- Have a thick spine
- Have a slight sweep, rather than a dead-flat profile
- Have a mini K-tip to maneuver in joints more easily
- Have a handle that does not get too slippery from all the fat/moisture
- Be at least 150mm on the edge

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MontezumaBoy said:

Great post/summary here mise_en_place - nice note on the spine as well!

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Describes 99.99% of all honesuki ever produced.....

mise_en_place said:

A very useful thing on a honesuki, in my opinion, is a spine that has NOT been rounded. The "sharp" spine really helps scraping meat off the bone.

Overall, I prefer my honesuki to:

- Be semi-stainless (or well-patinated carbon) for ease of sharpening and low reactivity
- Have at least a portion (preferably closer to the handle) of the spine unrounded
- Have a thick spine
- Have a slight sweep, rather than a dead-flat profile
- Have a mini K-tip to maneuver in joints more easily
- Have a handle that does not get too slippery from all the fat/moisture
- Be at least 150mm on the edge

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All of this, plus a highly asymmetric geometry. My Hattori VG10 hits almost all of these criteria (except it's fully stainless). I really like that knife.

StonedEdge said:

Describes 99.99% of all honesuki ever produced.....

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Probably right, but that's more because of the lack of variation in what's being offered than any flaw in his description. There just isn't the amount of variation you can find in things like petties or gyutos.

Jovidah said:

Probably right, but that's more because of the lack of variation in what's being offered than any flaw in his description. There just isn't the amount of variation you can find in things like petties or gyutos.

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Exactly what I'm saying...they're all built generally the same because they are a one trick pony. If it ain't broke....

StonedEdge said:

If it ain't broke....

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Lol if that’s ever stopped any of us around here. But all good info

My Takeda honeski was an awesome knife. Built like a tank, its one Takeda knife that the fat bevel is a plus imo. I would of kept it except it was a little too specialized to justify the cost for me. $350 on a gyuto is an easy pill to swallow, $350 on a honeski? Ehh.

K813zra said:

Only? I think 150 birds is enough justification. That is about three birds a week, averaged out.

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I would think that some pros here probably go through that amount in a weeks time, and here I thought honesukis were only for them.

Does anyone ever notice that the bone density of chicken vary widely? You avg north american supermarket chicken has very soft bone, can't see myself chipping a blade on those. However, I've dealt with some chinese black silken chickens, some chicken from asian markets have crazy hard bone.

Jovidah said:

While I agree that they were usually thick enough at the spine, the very nature of a single bevel tends lead to a rather thin fragile edge.... unless you sharpen it so steep that there is very little advantage of going single bevel and you might as well get a double bevel.

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I'd just sharpen it the same as deba and yanagiba. Hamaguriba with microbevel. Sacrifice a tiny bit of the ultra sharpness to increase the toughness.

Typically when deboning a chicken you go in between the joints and not through them. And while you may incidentally slice through those joints from time to time, the bones at those joints themselves are more cartilage like anyway so no damage ever occurs. A deba encounters more heavy bone contact by nature and they do well against them.

About spine rounding, I usually use the pointer grip with honesuki so spine rounding really isn't needed from a functional standpoint. I'll probably do it anyway just for aesthetics in my usual fashion. I leave the tips unrounded simply because people break their tips off anyway so it just doesn't make sense. The squared tip is fine for any necessary bone scraping.

Let’s see some pics fellas, make this fun.
Here’s my misono carbon, dyed maple shoes. Probably go through a bird every two weeks. We eat mostly pork on our house.

Any love for Garasuki out there?

After trying more than a few (Misono, Tojiro, Marko Tsourkan, Delbert Ealy, Takeda, and Blazen), I found and kept a 100/0 pettysuki made by SpikeC: 162 mm O1 blade @ 61/63 HRC, redwood handle with ebony ferrule.

Beauty, how’s the belly on that? Do you find that it’s more useful?