Stropping... Stack of Newspaper Fine? Or should I get Leather?!

I've been just using a stack of newspaper (per Korin's recommendation if you don't have a leather strop). But should I invest in a Leather Strop? if so what kind? I hear that you can sharpen a knife with Just a Strop? Like using a steel on a western knife almost, but instead you use the strop...

newspaper works great... leather works great too, but leaves a very different feeling edge. If you prefer smoother feeling, leather is your friend. If you like a bit more bite (assuming no compound has been used on either), newspaper tends to do that. If you want to add abrasive pastes/sprays, then leather or similar is the way to go.

JBroida said:

newspaper works great... leather works great too, but leaves a very different feeling edge. If you prefer smoother feeling, leather is your friend. If you like a bit more bite (assuming no compound has been used on either), newspaper tends to do that. If you want to add abrasive pastes/sprays, then leather or similar is the way to go.

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Awesome thanks for the help! How much more important are the additives? I definitely want a smoother finer finish.

its less about being important and more about preference. I would advise against going too smooth for kitchen knives though. You can loose tactile feedback from the edge, and the kind of bite that is helpful with tomatoes, bell peppers, etc. But if you like smooth, high grit compounds or chromium oxide on a strop will do just that.

I like newsprint. Works well and I can use it to light a fire in the pit outback when it is worn out. Plus I get it for free. (We get a free newspaper here, two in fact.)

Yeah like Jon says you don't want to go too smooth and polished. Smooth is great for shaving, but most of us don't shave our tomatoes and bell peppers...

Compounds come in a lot of different grit sizes. The really fine ones can be used for burr removal or edge polishing. The coarser ones can stand in as an alternative for sharpening stones. For example some people use stropping compounds after a 1000 grit stone instead of a 3k, 4k or 5k stone (you see this mostly in the shaving community). There's pro's and cons to it. The pro is that if you're already good at stropping (which is sort of a requirement for shaving), the technique is largely the same. The downside is that it's also very easy to round over your edge if you're putting too much pressure or screwing with the angle.

I wouldn't obsess too much over diving into the stropping hole. There are a lot of roads to rome, but as long as you do at least some form of stropping (so you're not trying to cut with a wire edge) you'll generally be fine.
For touchups you can also just use your finest stone for a quick touch up.

JBroida said:

its less about being important and more about preference. I would advise against going too smooth for kitchen knives though. You can loose tactile feedback from the edge, and the kind of bite that is helpful with tomatoes, bell peppers, etc. But if you like smooth, high grit compounds or chromium oxide on a strop will do just that.

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Jovidah said:

Yeah like Jon says you don't want to go too smooth and polished. Smooth is great for shaving, but most of us don't shave our tomatoes and bell peppers...

Compounds come in a lot of different grit sizes. The really fine ones can be used for burr removal or edge polishing. The coarser ones can stand in as an alternative for sharpening stones. For example some people use stropping compounds after a 1000 grit stone instead of a 3k, 4k or 5k stone (you see this mostly in the shaving community). There's pro's and cons to it. The pro is that if you're already good at stropping (which is sort of a requirement for shaving), the technique is largely the same. The downside is that it's also very easy to round over your edge if you're putting too much pressure or screwing with the angle.

I wouldn't obsess too much over diving into the stropping hole. There are a lot of roads to rome, but as long as you do at least some form of stropping (so you're not trying to cut with a wire edge) you'll generally be fine.
For touchups you can also just use your finest stone for a quick touch up.

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thanks both of you for the help! and nice to meet you Jon, I was actually just going through those videos again to see if I missed anything; like Jovidah said there are somethings I've seen so far that are slight differences than Korin that are nice.

But to the smoothness of the knife... I prefer a polished smooth edge compared to anything with a bite. For instance if I have a soft pepper (because we buy cheap quality all the time!) the knife Stops and has to be pushed through or sliced through to get it to cut; hence I have to resort to a rock chop because I don't glide through the soft peppers or tomatoes.

Now my smooth polished finish may be completely different than some of you all with much more experience and expertise, but when I have a Smooth Polished Edge it never bites in a piece of paper at all, every inch of the blade glides through. And if I don't polish it correctly, or even after a fine stone polish and don't strop it on newspaper then it will catch when going through the paper. And this makes a big difference for me and how I like to cut. Not saying an extra bite isn't fine and will get the job done, because for years I Never was going to buy my own knife when they were provided; but never say never, and once I was gifted a knife (a cheap stamped stainless) I was bit by the Knife Bug!

But what do you two mean by "too smooth and polished"? Gliding through paper without any bite throughout the entirety of the blade? or is that common even if you have a "bite"?

K813zra said:

I like newsprint. Works well and I can use it to light a fire in the pit outback when it is worn out. Plus I get it for free. (We get a free newspaper here, two in fact.)

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haha yeah I know I just go up to the local grocery store and grab a stack of the ads.

I have liked the newspaper so far, I definitely can tell a difference when not using it.

Just wondering if with leather i'm missing something out.



OH! And Jon and Jov, when you strop do you use the same exact angle as when sharpening or does it really matter? I guess it can if you're going crazy, but just for a few strokes does it matter if its the same angle?

yeah... same angle. Angle consistency is rather important.

JBroida said:

yeah... same angle. Angle consistency is rather important.

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okay cool I appreciate that.

do you understand what i'm saying about the smoothness though? Is the smooth polished when it glides through the paper? or is that just common regardless? maybe I haven't actually gotten my knife to a True Smooth Polish like some of you can obtain.

i can get a 3k edge to move through paper with ease, but the higher grit and more refined you go, the less you feel any feedback doing that

JBroida said:

i can get a 3k edge to move through paper with ease, but the higher grit and more refined you go, the less you feel any feedback doing that

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ahhh see I don't know if im really getting that "extremely smooth" edge I think. when I do it right and the stones are flattened it goes through with ease, I can still feel it. but if its not flat or a minor flaw with my sharpening it will go through and then Catch and rip the paper then continue through the paper cutting... Is this what you are talking about? or do you not have any "catch"?

what i mean is it going through and being able to feel it vs having no tactile feedback as it moves cleanly through the paper... ripping is no good... usually a sign of bad sharpening and/or a chip

JBroida said:

what i mean is it going through and being able to feel it vs having no tactile feedback as it moves cleanly through the paper... ripping is no good... usually a sign of bad sharpening and/or a chip

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Cool thanks

Black ink leaves a lot of bite.
Stay slightly under the sharpening angle, and for sharpening, stay slightly under the angle which makes the edge to bite into the medium.

JBroida said:

i can get a 3k edge to move through paper with ease, but the higher grit and more refined you go, the less you feel any feedback doing that

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Listen to the sound it makes. I usually try with the finest cigarette paper. When it goes smoothly through it, and only whispering, I'm quite sure there is no more burr left.

TEWNCfarms said:

thanks both of you for the help! and nice to meet you Jon, I was actually just going through those videos again to see if I missed anything; like Jovidah said there are somethings I've seen so far that are slight differences than Korin that are nice.

But to the smoothness of the knife... I prefer a polished smooth edge compared to anything with a bite. For instance if I have a soft pepper (because we buy cheap quality all the time!) the knife Stops and has to be pushed through or sliced through to get it to cut; hence I have to resort to a rock chop because I don't glide through the soft peppers or tomatoes.

Now my smooth polished finish may be completely different than some of you all with much more experience and expertise, but when I have a Smooth Polished Edge it never bites in a piece of paper at all, every inch of the blade glides through. And if I don't polish it correctly, or even after a fine stone polish and don't strop it on newspaper then it will catch when going through the paper. And this makes a big difference for me and how I like to cut. Not saying an extra bite isn't fine and will get the job done, because for years I Never was going to buy my own knife when they were provided; but never say never, and once I was gifted a knife (a cheap stamped stainless) I was bit by the Knife Bug!

But what do you two mean by "too smooth and polished"? Gliding through paper without any bite throughout the entirety of the blade? or is that common even if you have a "bite"?

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It sounds like what you're describing as a edge that isn't "smooth and polished" is rather an edge that hasn't apexed properly - so is effectively still blunt. Even on a lower grit stone you can get an edge that still that doesn't bite in paper. It may 'sound' rougher, but it should still glide through. Now if you leave an apex that still has some bite, that effectively means there's still some micro-serration there, which will give a longer lasting 'slicing' ability on tough stuff like tomato / pepper skins. If you polish it out until maximum smooth razor, it will work at first, but can lose its agressiveness extremely fast.

It sounds to me like you might have been making one of the most common mistakes; moving up to higher grit stones too quickly, and relying upon them to apex your edge instead of doing that on your mid-grit stone.
This video might illustrate the concept in a nice comprehensible way (though you should probably ignore his sharpening technique):
[video=youtube;OPGGo3W15HQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPGGo3W15HQ[/video]

And yes, stropping on same angle. If you start stropping on a higher angle you risk rounding over your edge. If you do it on a lower angle you're just polishing the shoulders of your bevel. Minor exception being if you want to add a microbevel, but you should probably just watch Jon's video on that.

Jovidah said:

It sounds like what you're describing as a edge that isn't "smooth and polished" is rather an edge that hasn't apexed properly - so is effectively still blunt. Even on a lower grit stone you can get an edge that still that doesn't bite in paper. It may 'sound' rougher, but it should still glide through. Now if you leave an apex that still has some bite, that effectively means there's still some micro-serration there, which will give a longer lasting 'slicing' ability on tough stuff like tomato / pepper skins. If you polish it out until maximum smooth razor, it will work at first, but can lose its agressiveness extremely fast.

It sounds to me like you might have been making one of the most common mistakes; moving up to higher grit stones too quickly, and relying upon them to apex your edge instead of doing that on your mid-grit stone.
This video might illustrate the concept in a nice comprehensible way (though you should probably ignore his sharpening technique):
[video=youtube;OPGGo3W15HQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPGGo3W15HQ[/video]

And yes, stropping on same angle. If you start stropping on a higher angle you risk rounding over your edge. If you do it on a lower angle you're just polishing the shoulders of your bevel. Minor exception being if you want to add a microbevel, but you should probably just watch Jon's video on that.

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Awesome thanks for the help on that! The video link didn’t show up though...

Weird, works for me.

Just google "Cliff stamp basic three step knife sharpening" and you should be able to find it on youtube.

Cheap newsprint and junk literary material work well. National Enquire is premium stropping paper.

Jovidah said:

It sounds like what you're describing as a edge that isn't "smooth and polished" is rather an edge that hasn't apexed properly - so is effectively still blunt. Even on a lower grit stone you can get an edge that still that doesn't bite in paper. It may 'sound' rougher, but it should still glide through. Now if you leave an apex that still has some bite, that effectively means there's still some micro-serration there, which will give a longer lasting 'slicing' ability on tough stuff like tomato / pepper skins. If you polish it out until maximum smooth razor, it will work at first, but can lose its agressiveness extremely fast.

It sounds to me like you might have been making one of the most common mistakes; moving up to higher grit stones too quickly, and relying upon them to apex your edge instead of doing that on your mid-grit stone.
This video might illustrate the concept in a nice comprehensible way (though you should probably ignore his sharpening technique):
[video=youtube;OPGGo3W15HQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPGGo3W15HQ[/video]

And yes, stropping on same angle. If you start stropping on a higher angle you risk rounding over your edge. If you do it on a lower angle you're just polishing the shoulders of your bevel. Minor exception being if you want to add a microbevel, but you should probably just watch Jon's video on that.

Click to expand...

Crazy! Thanks so much for that video! So simple and yet informative! I’m still trying to figure out how to incorporate that into everything else I’ve learned so far... it’s almost the Complete opposite of Japanese sharpening...

For chromium oxide paste, you can also use balsa wood (available from model building stores) as a carrier.

Another advantage of using balsa wood is that because it's a hard surface it's a lot like stropping on a stone, and doesn't bring the danger of rounding over your edge.

On the Cliff Stamp movie; I wouldn't necessarily try to incorporate his technique... I mostly gave it because I think it might help to understand concepts such as apex and agressiveness. As I said the most common issue is that people move up to higher grit stones too soon before they truly apex their edge. As a result they underestimate the results they could (should!) already reach with their medium grit stone.

You can get balsa at big box stores sometimes as well, from the craft section. Not sure I would consider balsa hard though. Wonder if stropping on basswood would work. Same price at the craft store but harder and more dense. I use hard felt anyway...:lol2:

Well it's hard compared to leather.
And yeah I use felt too, but that's mostly because I just happen to have one. Plenty of roads to Rome when it comes to stropping!

Jovidah said:

Well it's hard compared to leather.
And yeah I use felt too, but that's mostly because I just happen to have one. Plenty of roads to Rome when it comes to stropping!

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Agree but I have some roo leather that is very, very thin and mounted on glass. It feels very hard, no give. But also smooth and it has that 'draw' in action that I love, compared to balsa.

How do you guys keep newspaper in place when used for stropping?

I roll it up and use it like a steel.

labor of love said:

How do you guys keep newspaper in place when used for stropping?

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with my hand... is this a trick question?

Unfortunately it isn’t. I was genuinely curious.