Help Shopping for Natural Stones!?? Cheap though!

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Following are recommendations based on MY personal taste and experience, not intended as any sage advise.

4000+ (more like 5000) get an Aizu, that's my must have Jnat. If you want lower grit get a red aoto (less chance of a dub than with blue ones) but these are very soft stones so I'm not a big fan, the green ones are supposed to be a bit harder.

8000+ there's A LOT to choose from. A lot of medium hard to hard (lvl 3.5-4) stones will finish in that 8K-10K range. Feedback will be different and some stones will leave more bite than others but a lot in that range leaves a very nice edge. My personal favourites are (particular stones I own) a Shinden suita, an Okudo suita (quite a few have been really good), and an Narutaki Iromono tomae. But as I said, I have probably had 7-8 suitas I love as finishers in that range plus a hard uchi, 3-4 tomae, 1 aisa... you get the idea.
 
Following are recommendations based on MY personal taste and experience, not intended as any sage advise.

4000+ (more like 5000) get an Aizu, that's my must have Jnat. If you want lower grit get a red aoto (less chance of a dub than with blue ones) but these are very soft stones so I'm not a big fan, the green ones are supposed to be a bit harder.

8000+ there's A LOT to choose from. A lot of medium hard to hard (lvl 3.5-4) stones will finish in that 8K-10K range. Feedback will be different and some stones will leave more bite than others but a lot in that range leaves a very nice edge. My personal favourites are (particular stones I own) a Shinden suita, an Okudo suita (quite a few have been really good), and an Narutaki Iromono tomae. But as I said, I have probably had 7-8 suitas I love as finishers in that range plus a hard uchi, 3-4 tomae, 1 aisa... you get the idea.

Awesome I appreciate it!

What do you think about the stone I posted?

Also what’s the price range on your suggestions?
 
I like cheap blue/grey aoto stones just fine and have never got what I would call a dud. They are just coarser than what I think most would prefer in the 2-4k range and normally closer to the 2k end of things. Not the supposed stones of yesteryear that were in the 3-5k range I guess. But they have good feedback, are soft and muddy, fun to use and normally very cheap. A good thrill type stone on a small budget.

Having said that, I agree with the Aizu for a one and done mid to upper mid range stone. My best Aizu is probably 4-5k but my other three are all closer to 3k.

As for finishing stones I like 'em on the soft side for feel but on the aggressive side for performances. I would go with performance over feel every time though. I have always been happy with anything Ohira that I have tried. A few suita and half a dozen tomae of varying type. Seems all of mine have been medium hard, fast cutting and in the probably 4-6k range with a few rounding 8k bit with a fair amount of bite.

On the other hand I love the feel of softer stones like my Takashima, which is probably right around 6-8k on the edge, leaves a good kasumi and is silky smooth in use. However not enough bite left on the edge, for me.

Just so many ways you can go here and most of them based on preference. Enjoy the ride!

Edit: The stone you link to is an Amakusa and stones from that mine have proven, to me, to be the most inconsistent of any I have used. They are cheap and most of them are quite usable and I have one that I love a lot but I went through 12 and have kept only one. I have had amakusa that are granite hard, don't auto slurry and seem to not cut unless you hit them with a diamond plate first. I have kept my very soft (HS-18 on a Watanabe scale) Amaksusa that is very, very aggressive as a natural bevel setter and for that I love it. But I have owned everything between as well. For the price I think it is worth the gamble, just keep your expectations realistic. And if you want a higher quality one go with Watanabe stones that he has tested. He has nicer Binsui than others I have used as well.
 
Awesome I appreciate it!

What do you think about the stone I posted?

Also what’s the price range on your suggestions?

I don't own an amakusa, but all I have read leads me to think it's not the stone I would recommend to start a Jnat collection (hopefully you will get input from several owners so you can compile your impressions but at the same time it's cheap enough it's not scary to just go and try). Get an Aizu and/or a soft finisher (typically 6-7K) for a much more sure fire pleasant starting experience would be my advice if you plan to polish too, if you don't care to polish a harder finisher would be fine too as long as it's a fast one.

As for the range of the stones I suggested before:

Aizu: for the most normal size they come in (190-200x60-70x20mm roughly), about $100-$140 from BST, starting at like $170 from vendors like Watanabe.

For a finisher it's a wide open field, name recognition, size, shape, and appearance often influence the price more than performance does. You need to first figure out what are your priorities while shopping (which of the above factors are important for you and whether polishing is important besides edge) before you can even start to narrow down a price range. You can have a small kappa in a nondescript tan colour and unknown mine that performs excellent for $50, it goes from there to 4 figures as you add in the factors above mentioned.
 
I like cheap blue/grey aoto stones just fine and have never got what I would call a dud. They are just coarser than what I think most would prefer in the 2-4k range and normally closer to the 2k end of things. Not the supposed stones of yesteryear that were in the 3-5k range I guess. But they have good feedback, are soft and muddy, fun to use and normally very cheap. A good thrill type stone on a small budget.

Having said that, I agree with the Aizu for a one and done mid to upper mid range stone. My best Aizu is probably 4-5k but my other three are all closer to 3k.

As for finishing stones I like 'em on the soft side for feel but on the aggressive side for performances. I would go with performance over feel every time though. I have always been happy with anything Ohira that I have tried. A few suita and half a dozen tomae of varying type. Seems all of mine have been medium hard, fast cutting and in the probably 4-6k range with a few rounding 8k bit with a fair amount of bite.

On the other hand I love the feel of softer stones like my Takashima, which is probably right around 6-8k on the edge, leaves a good kasumi and is silky smooth in use. However not enough bite left on the edge, for me.

Just so many ways you can go here and most of them based on preference. Enjoy the ride!

Edit: The stone you link to is an Amakusa and stones from that mine have proven, to me, to be the most inconsistent of any I have used. They are cheap and most of them are quite usable and I have one that I love a lot but I went through 12 and have kept only one. I have had amakusa that are granite hard, don't auto slurry and seem to not cut unless you hit them with a diamond plate first. I have kept my very soft (HS-18 on a Watanabe scale) Amaksusa that is very, very aggressive as a natural bevel setter and for that I love it. But I have owned everything between as well. For the price I think it is worth the gamble, just keep your expectations realistic. And if you want a higher quality one go with Watanabe stones that he has tested. He has nicer Binsui than others I have used as well.

Awesome I really appreciate it!!!

So on http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/special/wetstone1.htm are the $200-1500? It says like 22,000 yen. I just can’t spend that much on a stone! I was thinking $50 was a lot, then decided Maybe I could do $100, but $200 is Ridiculous for me to buy with my salary! Like those Ohiras they are too expensive for me
 
I don't own an amakusa, but all I have read leads me to think it's not the stone I would recommend to start a Jnat collection (hopefully you will get input from several owners so you can compile your impressions but at the same time it's cheap enough it's not scary to just go and try). Get an Aizu and/or a soft finisher (typically 6-7K) for a much more sure fire pleasant starting experience would be my advice if you plan to polish too, if you don't care to polish a harder finisher would be fine too as long as it's a fast one.

As for the range of the stones I suggested before:

Aizu: for the most normal size they come in (190-200x60-70x20mm roughly), about $100-$140 from BST, starting at like $170 from vendors like Watanabe.

For a finisher it's a wide open field, name recognition, size, shape, and appearance often influence the price more than performance does. You need to first figure out what are your priorities while shopping (which of the above factors are important for you and whether polishing is important besides edge) before you can even start to narrow down a price range. You can have a small kappa in a nondescript tan colour and unknown mine that performs excellent for $50, it goes from there to 4 figures as you add in the factors above mentioned.

Like this one? https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202270638185
What is BTS?
 
Here's a hint... if you're trying to stay within some kind of a budget, stick to synthethics. Even a lot of professionals in Japan use them, so it's not like they're complete crap...
 
As a noob that just purchased his fourth Jnat, may I suggest more reading and research before spending your money. There are a ton of threads related to Jnats on this forum, discussions on synth vs natural, edge, polish, buying, etc. As mentioned earlier, are you looking for purely the edge or are you thinking of polishing as well?

What are the names in Japanese of the different grades of natural stones? The different grits

You will find jnats are listed as Mine/Strata/description/hardness. And within Hardness, different vendors have diffrent systems as well (common one as the watanabe scale, aframes scale, japnese vendors usually 1-5lvl scale)

BST is probably the best place to look as they usually include, pictures, description, user(s) review, basically more reasonable price with less mystery
 
If you want to have a chance to get a decent stone for around $100 than probably your only chance is to try your luck on buyee, but you really need first to learn much more about the subject (including hand-on experience) to have any chance (and you will still be at a risk of getting poor quality stone). But the bottom line is - to gaing some knowledge and experience in natural stones is really not cheap and might better be left for later if you are on a tight budged. Trying BST is probably the better idea.
 
Actually, rather than gambling my suggestions is to go with a "koppa" (small or off cut stone) or "san" (narrow stone) or even a type 100 (slightly smaller than brick) from Japanese Natural Stones or from B/S/T. I have seen Max offer a lot of stones in the $75-90 range over the past few years because they were oddly shapen, narrow, short or thin and I have bought many of them myself.

I do not have loads of money either so I feel where you are coming from and I often have to sell one knife or stone to buy another or I have to save up over time and by that time the stone I want is gone. It sucks but with dalliance and patience you can find what you want and save up for a good one. Even if that means going with a smaller or oddly shaped stone but one that is still of good quality.
 
yep.

BST is the Buy Sell Trade subforum here.
Ohhh okay cool thanks!

Here's a hint... if you're trying to stay within some kind of a budget, stick to synthethics. Even a lot of professionals in Japan use them, so it's not like they're complete crap...
Haha yeah I know I’m torn!
As a noob that just purchased his fourth Jnat, may I suggest more reading and research before spending your money. There are a ton of threads related to Jnats on this forum, discussions on synth vs natural, edge, polish, buying, etc. As mentioned earlier, are you looking for purely the edge or are you thinking of polishing as well?



You will find jnats are listed as Mine/Strata/description/hardness. And within Hardness, different vendors have diffrent systems as well (common one as the watanabe scale, aframes scale, japnese vendors usually 1-5lvl scale)

BST is probably the best place to look as they usually include, pictures, description, user(s) review, basically more reasonable price with less mystery

When you all are asking about polishing what do you mean? Like a polished edge? Or polishing the entire knife? Eventually I will polish it but for now I’m just sharpening and polishing only the edge
 
polishing as in getting a kasumi finish on san mai wide bevel knives.
 
This is a foreign language to me! I’ll have to do some research...

Kasumi is the 'mist' finish on the wide bevel (the part where your damascus lives). San mai describes the way the knife is constructed. Your blade is San mai. The technique involves sandwiching the core steel (the cutting steel) between two outer layers, this would be the damascus part. This polishing can be done in many levels between a basic kasumi (mist) all the way to full on mirror. Different stones will get different results and also will react differently with various steels. It’s possible to go mental here 🙃
Also what Kit said above is a very valid point about dipping your toes in the waters. Small pieces like koppas can be purchased for reasonable price, they just won’t be brick shaped. I got started that way, for it was a small piece of Hakka that spun my head, then an inexpensive piece of Aiiwatani. Right bout there I tripped into the rabbit hole...
 
Here's a hint... if you don't even know what kasumi is maybe you shouldn't run off to buy JNats. IMO when you're still in the learning phase and (by your own admittance) on a budget it makes little sense to go for naturals. They're expensive.
Watanabe makes a living selling knives... what does he use for his sharpening? Shapton + Kitayama. Murray Carter makes a living selling knives. What does he use? King 1k + 6k. Large swaths of professional sharpeners use synthetics. You can achieve excellent results and astounding edges with very modest and affordable stones. It's silly to think that naturals are a necessity to get a proper sharp blade. They're a luxury... for people who have the disposable income to afford them...

Buying small stones to 'start out' might work for razors, but IMO sharpening on small stones just sucks with knives. The bigger the better.
 
Meh, I rarely notice the difference between a 180x60 vs a 205x75mm stone in use. I do notice the HUGE price difference at times though. :)

Aside from that I do agree. The set budget is low even for synthetic stones let alone naturals.
 
Here's a hint... if you don't even know what kasumi is maybe you shouldn't run off to buy JNats. IMO when you're still in the learning phase and (by your own admittance) on a budget it makes little sense to go for naturals. They're expensive.
Watanabe makes a living selling knives... what does he use for his sharpening? Shapton + Kitayama. Murray Carter makes a living selling knives. What does he use? King 1k + 6k. Large swaths of professional sharpeners use synthetics. You can achieve excellent results and astounding edges with very modest and affordable stones

:plus1: Get good at sharpening and polishing on synthetics. Once you can get a repeatable result and can see the limitations and positives of those stones then start looking at jnats.
 
Kasumi is the 'mist' finish on the wide bevel (the part where your damascus lives). San mai describes the way the knife is constructed. Your blade is San mai. The technique involves sandwiching the core steel (the cutting steel) between two outer layers, this would be the damascus part. This polishing can be done in many levels between a basic kasumi (mist) all the way to full on mirror. Different stones will get different results and also will react differently with various steels. It’s possible to go mental here 🙃
Also what Kit said above is a very valid point about dipping your toes in the waters. Small pieces like koppas can be purchased for reasonable price, they just won’t be brick shaped. I got started that way, for it was a small piece of Hakka that spun my head, then an inexpensive piece of Aiiwatani. Right bout there I tripped into the rabbit hole...
Ahhh I see, thanks! I've got a couple ebay binsuis that i'm looking at, if on falls through then i'll use that as my starting point. Honestly I am not ever really looking to spend hundreds of dollars on a stone, hence why maybe nattys aren't for me. But we shall see.
Here's a hint... if you don't even know what kasumi is maybe you shouldn't run off to buy JNats. IMO when you're still in the learning phase and (by your own admittance) on a budget it makes little sense to go for naturals. They're expensive.
Watanabe makes a living selling knives... what does he use for his sharpening? Shapton + Kitayama. Murray Carter makes a living selling knives. What does he use? King 1k + 6k. Large swaths of professional sharpeners use synthetics. You can achieve excellent results and astounding edges with very modest and affordable stones. It's silly to think that naturals are a necessity to get a proper sharp blade. They're a luxury... for people who have the disposable income to afford them...

Buying small stones to 'start out' might work for razors, but IMO sharpening on small stones just sucks with knives. The bigger the better.
ohh see I didn't realize that especially about Watanabe, I did realize and liked that about Carter where he says "it's the technique not the tools" and how he uses King stones, and he doesn't even use a flattener, he says you should just use that certain area that is higher than others to flatten in out, and you don't waste any stone. And yeah, I definitely do Not want a stone Less than 6"x2" it really does become kind of a pain. But you know thinking about it, they had to use small stones for Swords... Thanks for the help with everything

Meh, I rarely notice the difference between a 180x60 vs a 205x75mm stone in use. I do notice the HUGE price difference at times though. :)

Aside from that I do agree. The set budget is low even for synthetic stones let alone naturals.
Yeah I mean, i'm willing to spend like $100 At Most for a Stone, but would Much rather prefer to spend like $30 give or take.


:plus1: Get good at sharpening and polishing on synthetics. Once you can get a repeatable result and can see the limitations and positives of those stones then start looking at jnats.
I have pretty much gotten down the basics and getting repeatable results; definitely the sharpest knives i've ever used, as well everyone I work with agrees. But I Am going to Have to buy a new 1000-+grit stone soon, because my King 1000/6000 is wearing down considerably on the 1K side. So i'm going to buy a preferably 1200 stone, and these binsuis seem to be calling my name! I would post a link but I was advised not to, and one of them could definitely be snagged before I get to it. But if/once I buy it i'll post the details about it. Thanks everyone for your help!
 
I get the sense that you don't want to hear it and are not going to listen to it but I'll echo what the smart kids have said above. Synthetic. You would be much better served with even a Bestor 1200 (approx $50) than dropping a hundred on an unknown Jnat.

My daddy used to tell me I had champagne tastes with a beer budget. Are we related?
 
I get the sense that you don't want to hear it and are not going to listen to it but I'll echo what the smart kids have said above. Synthetic. You would be much better served with even a Bestor 1200 (approx $50) than dropping a hundred on an unknown Jnat.

My daddy used to tell me I had champagne tastes with a beer budget. Are we related?

Haha I love that! I definitely think we might be;)!

Interesting you say that... I’ve been really contemplating the Bester 1200!
 
I'd say spend maybe 15-20%
of you knife on stones to keep it useful.
 
Yes,the Bester 1200 is a nice stone.When I first got into sharpening,it was one of the most highly recommended so I purchased one.I am not sorry.
 
Here's a hint... if you don't even know what kasumi is maybe you shouldn't run off to buy JNats. IMO when you're still in the learning phase and (by your own admittance) on a budget it makes little sense to go for naturals. They're expensive.
Watanabe makes a living selling knives... what does he use for his sharpening? Shapton + Kitayama. Murray Carter makes a living selling knives. What does he use? King 1k + 6k. Large swaths of professional sharpeners use synthetics. You can achieve excellent results and astounding edges with very modest and affordable stones. It's silly to think that naturals are a necessity to get a proper sharp blade. They're a luxury... for people who have the disposable income to afford them...

Buying small stones to 'start out' might work for razors, but IMO sharpening on small stones just sucks with knives. The bigger the better.

Truthbombs
 
Yes,but don't some of us have to learn things the hard way? I do all the time and have since I was a kid.My dad told me so.I am 71 now and still doing things the hard way.I'm broke too.:(
 
Yes,the Bester 1200 is a nice stone.When I first got into sharpening,it was one of the most highly recommended so I purchased one.I am not sorry.
Nice glad to hear! Does it create any sort of slurry? Or do you have to use a nagura?
Yes,but don't some of us have to learn things the hard way? I do all the time and have since I was a kid.My dad told me so.I am 71 now and still doing things the hard way.I'm broke too.:(
Haha I’m the same way! I’ll be told how to do something and I’ll go find some obscure way on the internet and then when it doesn’t work I’m like son of a! I should have listened!

So needless to say I bought that natural stone from eBay! Only $27 though and for $4 more I get a Natural Nagura, we shall see how it is!;) haha
 
Yes,but don't some of us have to learn things the hard way? I do all the time and have since I was a kid.My dad told me so.I am 71 now and still doing things the hard way.I'm broke too.:(

Meh, there is a difference between doing/learning things the hard way and taking the scenic route.
 
Without some point of reference, blindly buying naturals, at any cost, wont do much to help you.
 
If you're gunna blindly drop 100$ on a jnat not knowing what it is or how it behaves, you'd be better off allocating that money to some new higher end synthetics. That way you know exactly what you're paying for and there's little to no surprises. Instead of taking a chance and maybe throwing that money away. Just a thought from someone who just finished replacing his mid/high grit synthetic stones mostly with jnat analogues.
 
Back
Top