Quantcast
Article in New Yorker - Knife Makers Must Read
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Article in New Yorker - Knife Makers Must Read

  1. #1
    Marko Tsourkan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    4,092

    Lightbulb Article in New Yorker - Knife Makers Must Read



    "If there’s something worth doing, it’s worth overdoing.” - An US saying.

    If my KKF Inbox is full (or not), please contact me via Email: anvlts@gmail.com

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Rockport, TX
    Posts
    4,892
    Despite the fact that he has become enshrined as a legend since his death, everything I've heard about Jobs makes him sound like a Grade A Jackass. He is a man who is known for being rude, petulant, argumentative, ****** to work with, unhelpful, secretive, demanding, obsessive, and possessive. Oh yeah and he made everyone believe they need a new $500 phone every 2 years. Brilliant work.

    Its no secret that everything that Microsoft "stole" from Apple was invented by Xerox years earlier and never utilized. WYSIWYG, GUI, the freaking internet...

    He is known for saying "people don't know what they want until you show them." This is mostly true, and certainly is obvious in kitchen cutlery. But what Jobs showed them was largely a net loss for humanity and the birth of a new pseudo-religious consumer culture.

  3. #3
    Marko Tsourkan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    4,092
    I found it interesting that S. Jobs' genius was in not inventing, but copying and improving - just like the saying - Greeks didn't invent anything, but everything they copied, they improved on. I think this is very applicable to knife-making - you can't reinvent a wheel, but you might be able to make it turn smoother.

    M

    PS: and I love that anecdote of Jobs dressing down B. Gates about stolen icons and mouse design.


    "If there’s something worth doing, it’s worth overdoing.” - An US saying.

    If my KKF Inbox is full (or not), please contact me via Email: anvlts@gmail.com

  4. #4
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    3,483
    Quote Originally Posted by johndoughy View Post
    Its no secret that everything that Microsoft "stole" from Apple was invented by Xerox years earlier and never utilized. WYSIWYG, GUI, the freaking internet...
    no. Apple paid Xerox for the right to visit and utilize, and nothing Apple actually designed and released was vaguely technically similar, despite some superficial similarities. they weren't built the same, they didn't look the same, and they didn't work the same. Xerox did not invent any of those things, btw (especially not the internet, lol), Parc simply put together disparate ideas into a quasi-practical system. the Parc systems didn't really work, and never would have, because the implementation was a dead end. they did, however, show how such systems could work. Microsoft, on the other hand, did directly copy. Apple lost the case not because it was shown that Microsoft didn't directly copy, but instead because the court ruled that they had the right to copy, due to an earlier agreement Apple and Microsoft had. the facts are a far cry from what you are claiming.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Rockport, TX
    Posts
    4,892
    Quote Originally Posted by EdipisReks View Post
    no. Apple paid Xerox for the right to visit and utilize, and nothing Apple actually designed and released was vaguely technically similar, despite some superficial similarities. they weren't built the same, they didn't look the same, and they didn't work the same. Xerox did not invent any of those things, btw (especially not the internet, lol), Parc simply put together disparate ideas into a quasi-practical system. the Parc systems didn't really work, and never would have, because the implementation was a dead end. they did, however, show how such systems could work. Microsoft, on the other hand, did directly copy. Apple lost the case not because it was shown that Microsoft didn't directly copy, but instead because the court ruled that they had the right to copy, due to an earlier agreement Apple and Microsoft had. the facts are a far cry from what you are claiming.
    I think those "superficial similarities" are called "ideas". My point was, you can't OWN ideas, and you don't really INVENT things. The only true invention is technique...and it's absurdly arrogant for him to believe that HE is the sole proprietor of GUI, or mobile phone platforms, etc etc. Life came before him, life goes on after him. He saw himself as being somehow deserving credit for the fact that he was standing in the midst of a maelstrom of technological advancement, and since he believed this so strongly, everyone else did too.

    As far as the "facts"...well, it's all he-said-she-said, isn't it? Here's what Bob Taylor, head of ARPANET said about who invented the internet:
    "I believe the first internet was created at Xerox PARC, circa '75, when we connected, via PUP, the Ethernet with the ARPAnet. PUP (PARC Universal Protocol) was instrumental later in defining TCP.

    For the internet to grow, it also needed a networked personal computer, a graphical user interface with WYSIWYG properties, modern word processing, and desktop publishing. These, along with the Ethernet, all came out of my lab at Xerox PARC in the '70s, and were commercialized over the next 20 years by Adobe, Apple, Cisco, Microsoft, Novell, Sun and other companies that were necessary to the development of the Internet."


    Also:
    John Shoch, who worked with Robert Metcalfe on the Ethernet developments at Xerox Parc, and who is at great pains to stay out of debates about who started the Internet, has concluded that PUP (the Parc Universal Protocol) was the first complete, operational set of Internet protocols. Schoch was also involved in the development of TCP/IP at a later date. To quote Shoch,

    "Starting around 1974, Xerox PARC designed and deployed an internet architecture called PUP; it was up and running on multiple machines and networks when TCP was just a design for byte stream protocols. Input from Xerox' operational experience helped convince the TCP working group to add the IP packet layer!"




    If you want to control a market on something, do something BETTER than anyone else. Fighting over who invented what is a game for petty aristocrats and toddlers.

  6. #6
    Mike Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Jackson, MI.
    Posts
    1,529
    Everyone knows....I invented the internet....geesh...

  7. #7
    Senior Member EdipisReks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    3,483
    Quote Originally Posted by johndoughy View Post
    I think those "superficial similarities" are called "ideas". My point was, you can't OWN ideas, and you don't really INVENT things. The only true invention is technique...and it's absurdly arrogant for him to believe that HE is the sole proprietor of GUI, or mobile phone platforms, etc etc. Life came before him, life goes on after him. He saw himself as being somehow deserving credit for the fact that he was standing in the midst of a maelstrom of technological advancement, and since he believed this so strongly, everyone else did too.

    As far as the "facts"...well, it's all he-said-she-said, isn't it? Here's what Bob Taylor, head of ARPANET said about who invented the internet:
    "I believe the first internet was created at Xerox PARC, circa '75, when we connected, via PUP, the Ethernet with the ARPAnet. PUP (PARC Universal Protocol) was instrumental later in defining TCP.

    For the internet to grow, it also needed a networked personal computer, a graphical user interface with WYSIWYG properties, modern word processing, and desktop publishing. These, along with the Ethernet, all came out of my lab at Xerox PARC in the '70s, and were commercialized over the next 20 years by Adobe, Apple, Cisco, Microsoft, Novell, Sun and other companies that were necessary to the development of the Internet."


    Also:
    John Shoch, who worked with Robert Metcalfe on the Ethernet developments at Xerox Parc, and who is at great pains to stay out of debates about who started the Internet, has concluded that PUP (the Parc Universal Protocol) was the first complete, operational set of Internet protocols. Schoch was also involved in the development of TCP/IP at a later date. To quote Shoch,

    "Starting around 1974, Xerox PARC designed and deployed an internet architecture called PUP; it was up and running on multiple machines and networks when TCP was just a design for byte stream protocols. Input from Xerox' operational experience helped convince the TCP working group to add the IP packet layer!"



    If you want to control a market on something, do something BETTER than anyone else. Fighting over who invented what is a game for petty aristocrats and toddlers.
    internet protocols and the freaking internet aren't even vaguely the same thing. PARC also wasn't the first with those, depending on how you define the idea of "working kinda sorta internet protocols." PARC was very important, but it gets way more credit than it really deserves, being an agglomerator more than an inventerator. the quotes you gave also suggest that there are some people who should really know better who mistake inter and intra, but that's not really surprising, really. besides, everybody knows that Mike Davis invented the internet, even before Al Gore did. i really don't think you understand Steve Jobs very well, either.

  8. #8
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Davis View Post
    Everyone knows....I invented the internet....geesh...
    WHUT????? wait.......I'm cereal

    http://youtu.be/BnFJ8cHAlco

    http://youtu.be/IUtA3VlXCJI

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    chazmtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Windermere, FL
    Posts
    506
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Davis View Post
    Everyone knows....I invented the internet....geesh...
    Didn't he invent global warming too?

  10. #10
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    4,227
    Interesting article. I can't say that I'm surprised. As for the relevance to knifemakers... I pretty much think the Japanese have designed and make the best cutters. The better ones are pretty close to perfection, whatever that may be. I guess the moral of the story is copy the Japanese and if you tinker, just change little things like Steve Jobs? I hope I'm not as picky as he seems to have been...

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts