Which knife, Tanaka, Tanaka, Wakui

Questionnaire time!

Location: Australia

Knife type: Gyuto, right handed, prefer WA handle, 210-270, prefer 240mm, stainless/carbon not an issue.

Max budget $300USD, affordable quality.

Home use, veg/proteins, not breaking down poultry etc as I have Wusthof 260mm and boning/filleting knives.

Replacing Global

Pinch grip, push/pull, chop, G&G,rock slice, love tip work.

Aesthetics barely register as I see the beauty in almost all knives. Looking for cutting/sharpening joy.

Comfort adaptable, looking for a great cutter with reasonable food release and nice feel on stones.
Thin tip or just nice taper will save me some thinning.

Edge retention can be a bonus.

End grain cutting boards, really enjoy hitting the stones, probably don't need enabling questions such as would you buy sharpening products, what sort of questionnaire is this, lol...

COMMENTS

Have been researching for months, trying a lot of average knives. Have narrowed this purchase down to Wakui and Tanaka. Leaning toward Wakui as I prefer push cutting and chopping, but the New handle on the K&S Tanaka Ginsan pushed me back that way.
Introductory post generated the question as to wether the Tanaka Blue#2 might be better for me as I value sharpness and sharpening, (thanks Nemo:lol2. So I decided to put it out there.

Thoughts? Have at it you lot...

Couple of questions before we start:
1) There is a tradeoff between thinness and food release. Do you want a super thin knife which falls through tall hard food like sweet potato and carrot but may get stuck in wet foods like potato and zucchini? Or a thicker knife which plows through crates of produce but may wedge in taller hard foods? Or something in between?

2) If you go carbon, are you happy with an iron clad knife (reactive cladding, will patina) or do you want a stainless cladding?

G’day mate and welcome

I’ve got the Tanaka B2 and the Wakui and I can’t split them. Food release, ease of sharpening and edge retention all excellent. The Tanaka might have the slightest edge in food release due to the KU finish and wide bevel but there’s honestly nothing in it. I probably reach for the Wakui more often but don’t read too much into that. I pulled the Tanaka out for a session the other night and it was like catching up with an old girlfriend; all the good memories come flooding back and you wonder why you drifted apart.

Anyway, this is one of those situations where you can’t make the wrong decision. Buy any one of them, use it for a couple of months then buy the other one. They are sufficiently good knives and different from each other that it is worth having both.

Edit. Haven’t tried the Tanaka ginsan, or any ginsan for that matter, so can’t help you there.

Haha, toughest question first! For the first purchase I think an all-rounder might be good, some sort of middleweight but probably on the thinner side, along with its respective trade-off.
I have often thought of grabbing a laser and something chunky with great food release, but budget dictates a go slow approach.
I don't particularly want potatoes to stick, and would love a tip that flies through onions without disturbing them, (yes, I'm just like that). It is really quite problematic that I want a laser with weight and awe inspiring food release, so compromise is the keyword.
This will be the first, so I can back it up soon with something that covers other angles. I started out thinking laser, but general food release issues have me leaning away, not sure how far. I was even watching a Takeda fly through product and leave it sitting where it started the other day and almost increased the budget! Would it be the best for what I need now? Probably not, I would think.

Don't mind a patina, especially a beautiful blue. As a home cook I have the luxury of time to maintain a fully reactive knife, but was thinking with the quality semi stainless and stainless clad gyuto around I am flexible. Whatever I own will need to get super sharp or it will get moved on. I am thinking of experiencing more traditional steels before getting into hap40 and the like. Having said that, some of the mono-steel semi-stainless and the like look good.
I stumbled on an acquaintance with a KS a few years ago and it triggered something of an obsession that I have not fed as yet. May have been the combination of profile, steel and grind.
Have seen some interesting feedback regarding the feel of different San-mai knives on the stones, especially when thinning, but have no experience as far as iron vs stainless cladding.
I do apologise, my rambling answers will probably hinder rather than help as there are so many directions in which one can go.

I have the Tanaka B2 dammy and ginsan in 240 and a 270 wakui.
The ginsan is a wide bevel, lighter and more nimble than the b2.
Haven't tried any of the newer versions of the b2, mine was from metal master, years ago.
The wakui I have, w2 kurouchi , if I remember, is also wide bevel and a really, really nice knife.

They are all really good knives, couldn't really split them to be honest, slightly different each one.
Each one will serve you well, but it would come down to personal preference as to which you'd prefer.

Not much help probably.

Thanks for the welcome and reply OliverNuther. That is all good to hear as I was only keen on the Ginsan due to its great reputation and the cool new handle at K&S. Blue2 might be the go, just need to hear from someone who has both Tanaka's before pulling the trigger. Still open to suggestions though...

On another note, how do you like your bunka? I will be tossing up between that and a nakiri before too long...

Nemo said:

Couple of questions before we start:
1) There is a tradeoff between thinness and food release. Do you want a super thin knife which falls through tall hard food like sweet potato and carrot but may get stuck in wet foods like potato and zucchini? ...

Click to expand...

A bit or clarification please!

I hate 'suction' with potatoes and similar but, also hate 'wedging' in sweet potatoes. Is the Tanaka a 'middle of the road' choice that is better for me?

TIA,
Sid

Thanks kevpenbanc, it all helps.

And what Sid asked, although I am, as always open to other suggestions...

I own the 240 Tanaka G and like it a lot. Not a great knife but a good knife - will do anything thrown at it, does not feel fragile in any way and with a K&S handle is a looker as well. I've used the stainless clad blue, also in 240 and had a slight preference for it. Both are very good values and could be THE knife for anyone that does not want to go further down the rabbit hole.

I only know the Wakui by reputation but that reputation is good.

As said above, not a bad choice amongst them.

Cheers

If you don't have coarse stones for thinning tanaka's bevel, then definitely go wakui.

Thanks daveb, do you know what the preference for the B2 was from? Cutting, sharpening or just feel?

wbusby1, I have a 240/800 cheaper that cuts knives that go within a foot of it, (eek!), and a global 240/1000 that is pretty sweet to use, like a mud monster once it gets going. Don't mind thinning but this is great to know in advance, don't think I've seen this on any other threads.

One other factor is the sub par handle on the Wakui, not the end of the world and I'm sure that the blade makes up for it, but I would probably have to rehandle it.

To my mind, Tanaka Najishi (I understand that the ginsan and B2 are similar grinds) is a thinner knife with pretty good food release given its thinness. But it ain't no workhorse grind. It's a wide bevel. The profile is quite curved (but much less so than a German). There is a distal taper but it is not extreme.

It's worth looking at Syousin Chiku. It is stainless clad aoganmi super. Edge retention is pretty good. It is a similar thinness the Tanaka. The profile is also similar but the blade is a little taller near the tip. It's also a wide bevel. The Migaki verion has better fit & finish but the 240 is sold out at the moment. The distal taper is pretty serious on this knife.

A little thicker and with better food release is the Shiro Kamo Syousin Suminagashi. It's in R2 PM stainless steel clad in a fairly restrained stainless damascus cladding. Edge retention is very long. Sharpening is not very hard. The blade is fairly tall, making it blade heavy. It has a moderately curved profile (a little flatter than Tanaka). Spine and choil are only eased, not rounded like on the KnS Tanakas. Distal taper is nothing special. It's a very hood value knife. Note that KnS has an upgraded version (Shinko Kurokumo) with nicer handle and spine & choil easing.

Yoshikane SKD hammmered is thicker knife with even better food release. It has a very flat profile with a wide bevel. It's stainless clad semistainless steel which is almost carbon nice to sharpen and has quite good edge retention. Distal taper is slightly more than Tanaka but nothing special for a Sanjo knife. The fairly light Ho handle gives a blade-heavy knife.

A little over budget (especially when you add postsge from the USA) is the Gesshin Gengetsu. It is not quite as thin as the Tanaka. Food release is excellent for its thickness. Profile is fairly flat, with a reasonably prominent taper. Available in Wh2 or Semistainless, both clad in stainless. An excellent cutter.

Shame you weren't here a month or two ago, as Intomonn semistainless was available then but I think it's all sold out now. Quite similar to Gengetsu in many ways, just a little thinner with slightly less food release.

deskjockey said:

A bit or clarification please!

I hate 'suction' with potatoes and similar but, also hate 'wedging' in sweet potatoes. Is the Tanaka a 'middle of the road' choice that is better for me?

TIA,
Sid

Click to expand...

Well, it's a tradeoff. Tanaka executes the tradeoff pretty well but it leans towards the thinner side and thus is less wedgey but more sticky side. Gengetsu is a little thicker but has an even better executed tradeoff, so food release is quite good (still not workhorse grind good though).

Absolute gold Nemo, I have looked at all of these knives in the past, but not all of them more recently as I formed a better idea of what I want. I will revisit them all.

I think you may be right, by the time I firmed up where I was going at the moment the Itinomonn had disappeared.

All of the knives mentioned so far are great knives and excellent value. Can't really go wrong with any of them.

I've never met a tanaka I didn't like, r2, b2 dammy, b2 nashiji, they are all great knives, my nod goes to the dammy grinds, the tanaka convex is one of the best out there, and the r2 is excellent in all regards, but is also the priciest one. The yoshikane skd tsuchime that I have has the best distal taper I have used, great grind, and very good steel.
i have used only one wakui knife, a v2 kuro nakiri. it is absurdly thin behind the edge, I love that knife and will probably pick up a gyuto later, not the best food release though.

Nice, wasn't even in the game!

Tanaka, Tanaka, Wakui...
Got them all.

The nashijis (ginsan and B2) are the same knife just with different core steel. The grind, weight, profile are the same (except for the slight fluctuations due to being handmade).

The Tanakas and the Wakui (hairline / kasumi) SS clad W2 have almost identical cutting performance when it comes to fall through food and food release (Wakui has marginally better food release).

Even though the the Tanakas are wide bevel and and the Wakui is convex grind. They still share a lot like weight (the ones I have all weigh about 200-210 g), thinness behind the edge, spine thickness and balance. Also they all have slight S-grinds. Meaning that the grind is a bit concave behind the edge. The Wakuis grind progresses to a convex grind and the Tanakas concave grind hits the wide bevels shoulder to complete the S.

If you want a laser type cutting performance and decent food release, these are some of the best options you can find period. The convex grind makes them super thin behind the edge and with enough weight they'll go through food like it's air. They have enough spine that when the grind widens it'll push the food away from the blade. All have superb onion destroying tips as well.

Heat treats are top notch. these W2 and B2 are some of the easiest knives to sharpen and the edge they take is crazy face giggle worthy (make sure no one sees you). I personally prefer the Tanaka B2 over Wakui W2, but that's splitting hairs. The ginsan is almost as easy and takes a very nice edge too, but ginsan edge retention is on another level. Not far from Takamura R2 and that's saying something.

The biggest difference is the profile. Tanakas usually come with a continues curve and some might have some belly. From my four Tanakas one has a little belly three don't. there's almost no (or very little) flat spot on the edge profile. The Wakui has a long lovely flat spot that gracefully continues to a naturally rolling tip. I prefer the Kasumi finish just slightly over the Nashiji Tanakas. I'm also more of a convex grind kinda guy. Although the Tanaka Wide bevels are the only wide bevels I seem to like.

If I had to choose one I'd go for the Tanaka ginsan. As most things are so close the longer edge retention and easy of maintenance takes the price for me. And I do like my ginsan steel a lot.
If you want the most sharpening joy and the continues curve edge profile suits your cutting style, the Tanaka B2 nashiji ticks those boxes. It's my favourite on the stones (though Wakui is close).
If you like more the kasumi look and you prefer a long flat spot and also want to enjoy sharpening, the Wakui is the clear choice.

Thank goodness I don't have to choose so I'll keep enjoying all of them!

When in doubt by a Tanaka. Seems to work for many. (Me included.) :laugh:

I have had the VG-10 Damy, B#2 Damy and Ginsan to this point and I have been eyeing up the R2. None of mine had a real flat spot, as already noted by others. That works for me, might not for you.

Stonetherapy said:

On another note, how do you like your bunka? I will be tossing up between that and a nakiri before too long...

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I like it but I very rarely use it nowadays. I bought it fairly early on thinking that (a) Takeda bunkas looked cool and (b) it would be handy to have a smaller knife for small vege prep sessions, 1 carrot, 1 onion sort of thing. In reality I find myself reaching for a gyuto even if I’m just chopping one onion because at 170 the bunka is just a little too short to get through larger produce. The blade itself is great; thin, gets crazy sharp very easily and a joy to use on small produce. If I had my time again I probably wouldn’t buy it again but I won’t be letting this one go though either.

There have been a few threads discussing the merits of gyuto vs nakiri for vege prep and I don’t want to incur the wrath of the nakiri mafia by suggesting that gyuto are more versatile thus making a nakiri redundant but that is one school of thought. Me personally, I think even a 180 nakiri would feel too short for me but that’s coz I’m a 240 gyuto kinda guy. There are plenty of nakiri wielding others who will disagree with me.

Haha, thanks for the info, I believe you. I have a small Japanese nakiri that I love, reading your post made me realise that I have hardly used it recently as I was playing with some globals that I have just given away! Pulled it out tonight for the first time in ages.

Totally off topic (sorry OP), but has anyone seen or own a 210+ mm Nakiri?

Xenif said:

Totally off topic (sorry OP), but has anyone seen or own a 210+ mm Nakiri?

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Seen as in do they exist or seen as in looked at in person? If the former, Toyama. If the later, no. But a 180 is a beefy knife so I can imagine a 210. There is a video floating around here somewhere of a 210 Toyama in use, it seems massive.

Would be cool to have a play with...

Sorry of I wasnt clear enough, what I meant was do Nakiri LARGER than 210 exist? I currently own a 210 Heiji SS, weighs in at 236g, kills veggies, so much so it should be the weapon for the final boss in Plant vs Zombies 3

Which leads me to back to OP, Tanaka vs Wakui, if all else being equal, the Wakui has much flatter profile and Tanaka a gentle curve with a small flat spot. I was in the same boat a few months ago and I opted for the Tanaka B2 and then hunted down a great Nakiri, but mind you Im what they call "Nakiri bias" here.

Stonetherapy said:

I don't particularly want potatoes to stick, and would love a tip that flies through onions without disturbing them, (yes, I'm just like that). It is really quite problematic that I want a laser with weight and awe inspiring food release, so compromise is the keyword.

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Was looking for exactly this when I bought my Wakui, and it really delivered. It's really 2 knives in one, a laser with 1-2mm spine thickness on the front half, and a 3-5mm workhorse with good food release. Wakui has one of the easiest White #2 to sharpen, but the edge retention is average for White. Can't really comment on Tanaka, the lack of distal taper (thicker tip) and continuous curve are deal breakers - I do lots of tip work and never rock chop.

The handle on the Wakui is an abomination, unfortunately K&S doesn't include a handle upgrade. I bought mine from Bernal here, and it came with a very nice rosewood handle.

Xenif said:

Totally off topic (sorry OP), but has anyone seen or own a 210+ mm Nakiri?

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I have the Toyama 210, clocks in heavier than the 270 gyuto according to JNS weights. Holding it in my hand, I believe it. All it wants to do is push cut veg, all day, every day. The "tip" section is actually pretty thin ~1.4mm and flies through onions

Wow, this thread is getting real...

BTW, saw the Bernal Wakui, was wondering about the D handle vs the octagonal. Quick search revealed a general preference for the octagonal, but I doubt it would bother me. You sound happy with yours ob-gym?