Miz Biz (Mizuno gyuto comparison?)

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McMan

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Two questions... Miz 240 gyutos. (Honyaki ain’t in the budget, so don’t rub it in…)

(1) Differences between the DX Akitada and Hontanren series? Both are listed at 62-3hrc. Is the only difference that DX is Blue#1 and Hontaren is Blue#2?

(2) Thoughts/observations about Mizuno’s wide-bevel version vs. the non-Shinogi version?
I’ve read some posts that say the wide-bevel is cosmetic and others that say it definitely isn’t… I’ve seen some posts that say the non-Shinogi grind is the same grind as the Miz honyaki, and I’ve seen other posts disagreeing because the honyaki is thicker/meatier…
 
Can only help with qn 2. I have Akitada Hontanren 270 wide bevel. Definitely a functional wde bevel. It's convex and it's sharpened hamiguriba on both sides. It responds well to hamiguriba sharpening wirh a microbevel. This is much easier to do than it sounds. Food release seems best when the wide bevel is polished circa 3000.

Anecdotally there seems to be a bit of variability in the thickness of the grind and therefore the food releasey goodness (mine is quite good). The HT of B2 is pretty good.

Hope this helps
 
I owned 2 or 3 regular jck non blade road non shinogi miz that were thicker blades. Also 1 from K&S w blade road and shinogi. The shinogi version was ground a lot thinner. Can’t recall whether or not blade road was faux though. Never tried the blue 1 versions, which I can only assume are nicer somehow.
 
I owned 2 or 3 regular jck non blade road non shinogi miz that were thicker blades. Also 1 from K&S w blade road and shinogi. The shinogi version was ground a lot thinner. Can’t recall whether or not blade road was faux though. Never tried the blue 1 versions, which I can only assume are nicer somehow.
Yeah, I remember at the time that you commented that mine was ground much thicker than yours.
 
Can only help with qn 2. I have Akitada Hontanren 270 wide bevel. Definitely a functional wde bevel. It's convex and it's sharpened hamiguriba on both sides. It responds well to hamiguriba sharpening wirh a microbevel. This is much easier to do than it sounds. Food release seems best when the wide bevel is polished circa 3000.

Anecdotally there seems to be a bit of variability in the thickness of the grind and therefore the food releasey goodness (mine is quite good). The HT of B2 is pretty good.

Hope this helps

Thanks. Yeah, this is definitely helpful. I didn't know that it was ground hamiguriba, so this is a plus.
 
I owned 2 or 3 regular jck non blade road non shinogi miz that were thicker blades. Also 1 from K&S w blade road and shinogi. The shinogi version was ground a lot thinner. Can’t recall whether or not blade road was faux though. Never tried the blue 1 versions, which I can only assume are nicer somehow.

Thanks. Which did you like better--with shinogi or no shinogi? Which was a better cutter?
This is making it tough... I'm leaning towards thicker but also like what Nemo was mentioning about the shinogi version.
I'm wondering if the Blue#1 are nicer in other ways than steel or that the price is just because it's #1 not #2...
 
Thanks. Which did you like better--with shinogi or no shinogi? Which was a better cutter?
This is making it tough... I'm leaning towards thicker but also like what Nemo was mentioning about the shinogi version.
I'm wondering if the Blue#1 are nicer in other ways than steel or that the price is just because it's #1 not #2...

What's your experience with either steel?? I say start with white. Unless you have your sharpening way under control will be hard to get the most of his blue steel, also chips more. Then move up to blue
 
I have a 270 blue 2 non shinogi and I love it. It is one of the few that I would be very hard pressed to give up. It is a solid middleweight that is still very thin where it counts and feels light in the hand. Probably my best all round performer.
 
Thanks. Yeah, this is definitely helpful. I didn't know that it was ground hamiguriba, so this is a plus.
http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/showthread.php?t=2878

I use Ugly Joe's sharpening method from this thread which works well.

The convexity is more noticible on the right obviously but is also present on the left.

Jon's videos were gold when I was learning to do this (thanks again Jon [emoji106]).
 
If I was using your budget and wanted something similar I would pick up one of these.
http://www.knivesandstones.com/sakai-jikko-akatsuki-dawn-gyuto-240mm/
Akebono gets all the attention on the forum likely because of profile but Akatsuki profile isn’t to off from Miz, along with other things about it which I think make it a nicer knife
Akebono is a nicely done knife. Akatsuki looked to also be very nice (although I didn't use it). I'm not sure whether you are looking for a thinner knife or not. They are both a fair bit thinner than MY Miz is (although as discussed, there does seem to be a bit of variability in the Miz Akitada Hontanren wide bevel grinds). My Miz is a thicker middleweight. Don't know how the one LOL had compares to them though.
 
What's your experience with either steel?? I say start with white. Unless you have your sharpening way under control will be hard to get the most of his blue steel, also chips more. Then move up to blue

I've run the gamut with Blue (1,2), White (1,2), AS, 52100,AEB-L... Most of my knives now are White.
Experience isn't the issue, I've tried a lot of gyutos... my issue is analysis paralysis!
 
If I was using your budget and wanted something similar I would pick up one of these.
http://www.knivesandstones.com/sakai-jikko-akatsuki-dawn-gyuto-240mm/
Akebono gets all the attention on the forum likely because of profile but Akatsuki profile isn’t to off from Miz, along with other things about it which I think make it a nicer knife

Akebono is a nicely done knife. Akatsuki looked to also be very nice (although I didn't use it). I'm not sure whether you are looking for a thinner knife or not. They are both a fair bit thinner than MY Miz is (although as discussed, there does seem to be a bit of variability in the Miz Akitada Hontanren wide bevel grinds). My Miz is a thicker middleweight. Don't know how the one LOL had compares to them though.

Akatsuki has been on the list for a little while :)
I'm looking for a middleweight.
If it was thinner Miz vs. thinner Akatsuki, I'm leaning Akatsuki.
If it was thicker Miz vs. thinner Akatsuki, I'm leaning Miz.
The problem is, as you point out, that the Miz grind has some variability between thick and thin--which makes things more complicated...
 
Well then...shoot Koki an email at jck. He’s great w communication. I’m still suspecting the w shinogi to be thinner as that was my experience. Perhaps non shinogi has thicker blade but thin at the edge. I dunno. He will likely send some choil shots if you ask.
 
Well then...shoot Koki an email at jck. He’s great w communication. I’m still suspecting the w shinogi to be thinner as that was my experience. Perhaps non shinogi has thicker blade but thin at the edge. I dunno. He will likely send some choil shots if you ask.

Good call. I hadn't thought to ask him.
I think I'll try a WTB too. Maybe shaking the tree will help.
 
I cut some potatoes with my knives a while back (I've been warned not to call this a true potato test since they were not soaked ahead of time). One knife is the Mizuno DX with shinogi. As far as my experience goes, it's the sharpest knife I've ever used. The food release is good, although I have a couple that seem to work better for me in a variety of situations. It's reactive as hell, since the cladding is soft iron. It feels like a very 'special' knife. Very thin behind the edge, feels effortless for light tasks. Your mileage may vary, but I'm happy I bought mine. Koki was very kind and helpful when I ordered.
Here's a link to the vid at the Mizuno point (should only take a minute if you're curious).
[video]https://youtu.be/BBCXJrTmVlU?t=17m5s[/video]
 
I cut some potatoes with my knives a while back (I've been warned not to call this a true potato test since they were not soaked ahead of time). One knife is the Mizuno DX with shinogi. As far as my experience goes, it's the sharpest knife I've ever used. The food release is good, although I have a couple that seem to work better for me in a variety of situations. It's reactive as hell, since the cladding is soft iron. It feels like a very 'special' knife. Very thin behind the edge, feels effortless for light tasks. Your mileage may vary, but I'm happy I bought mine. Koki was very kind and helpful when I ordered.
Here's a link to the vid at the Mizuno point (should only take a minute if you're curious).
[video]https://youtu.be/BBCXJrTmVlU?t=17m5s[/video]

Thanks for the link. The video brings up a neat point about food release and the speed of the cut... slow cutting = stiction... fast cutting = no stiction...
Food release is often discussed as an absolute--either a knife has good food release or it doesn't. I like how you pointed out it can be more like a spectrum.
 
I’ve read some posts that say the wide-bevel is cosmetic and others that say it definitely isn’t… I’ve seen some posts that say the non-Shinogi grind is the same grind as the Miz honyaki, and I’ve seen other posts disagreeing because the honyaki is thicker/meatier…

McMan, how did this search work for you? Did you end-up getting anything?
Found this thread because im loving my Mizuno Blue 1 with shinogi so much, its weighty and thin.
Really cant find anything that is a better performer especially with zero bevel and a high polish. Im boardering on 20 240 gyutos at the moment.
 
McMan, how did this search work for you? Did you end-up getting anything?
Found this thread because im loving my Mizuno Blue 1 with shinogi so much, its weighty and thin.
Really cant find anything that is a better performer especially with zero bevel and a high polish. Im boardering on 20 240 gyutos at the moment.
That's high praise considering a sample-size of 20!
Yeah... shaking the tree didn't yield any fruit. My search didn't pan out.
I have yet to see a Miz 240 hit BST.
I wonder if it's because a lot or people have moved past them or if those that have them don't want to part with them?
Anyhow, now you've got me thinking about one all over again! :)
 
Well Iceman91's got sold but something happended .. its the reason we cant use payment to friends and family anymore, no paypal repercussions.
then i got this one because i wanted to learn to work with Shinogi after purchasing a togo reigo with shinogi ... https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...om-grind-shinogi-added-from-murdersharp.37900
It was re-ground but nothing i wouldnt have done myself given enough time. I liked it so much i ordered a mizuno honyaki blue 2.

I'm at the point where if a knife isnt what i want, i can make it what i want in a few months of using and sharpening. And with all the knives ive owned this is the first *daily user* that i feel performs this well over the past couple months . although practicality points deducted for being all carbon, pleasantry on stones points added back, and the choil and spine arnt perfect but who cares. -* generally daily user is less than $500. (which my kato was at the time of purchase and use)
 
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Any update on the Mizuno Hontanren and DX, and differences between these two lines in use?
 
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