Have I bought the most expensive handle?

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This is a question of value, of course.
I'm happy to have received my first Japanese knife: 240mm Watanabe Gyuto.
I mainly have to thank all of you for sharing your experiences and opinions and indirectly convincing me to venture into this new world.
As far as handles goes, my limited exposure to D type handles gave me an impression that I'd really dislike them. So I chose to get Watanabe's octagonal ebony handle. Considering so-so fit and finish and $150 difference in price, would it have been better to upgrade the handle elsewhere?

I'm keeping this handle, but for future knives, who would you recommend for re-handling? I'm in the US.
Thanks,
Ato
P1290886.JPG

P1290887.JPG

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Cody Paul (@thegingerninja) snd Graydon Decollibus (@graydondecolibus) can find them on IG
 
I am not familiar with Watanabe's octagonal ebony handle but I must say that his octagonal keyaki is well worth the purchase price. This is one of the best handles I have. But I admit that it was costly.
 
Watanabes blades are nice, the sayas and handles from what I have noticed are stagaringly expensive for what you get.
 
Yeah, those look like very expensive generic handles. And they don't look like ebony either... ebony is darker and denser than this.
 
The handle looks like rosewood, but now idk that's just what it looks like to me.
 
There are many varieties of ebony. As to value I'm not sure Shinichi's handles are exactly worth the extra cash but then you don't have to go through the whole rehandle process so don't feel bad about it. His blades are outstanding and I'm sure you will enjoy!
 
This is Macassar ebony, a more brownish variety which is less likely to crack than the deep black Gaboon Ebony and therefore mostly used in upgraded Japanese handles. For an upgrade, the price is a little stiff, but Watanabe’s handles are usually the best non-custom ones I have seen.

Stefan
 
This is Macassar ebony, a more brownish variety which is less likely to crack than the deep black Gaboon Ebony and therefore mostly used in upgraded Japanese handles. For an upgrade, the price is a little stiff, but Watanabe’s handles are usually the best non-custom ones I have seen.

Stefan

They are really well shaped, they just lack the romance I'd expect from a $150 handle. I know I was shocked when I was talking to Sakai knife shops about what some handles cost, it's nothing to add 3-500 dollars to a blade if you get a god tier handle
 
Need to understand what makes this handle ( Watanabe's) is so special. IF Watanabe~san made the handle himself or is it made by a shop? if the latter it wld be freely available to to other makers too.

I have seen oversize Macassar ebony handle 240mm handle, rectangular ( no tapering from back to front) and also some ho wood handles. You need to be aware of the size... I am particular as i have an average asian hands. THis one seems tapered.

rgds ~Z
 
Value is subjective. I liked the Chestnut/horn handle on my Santoku. Would I have paid for that as an upgrade, probably not. I am not a handle guy though. I am fine with ho/plastic even if I prefer horn, I won't pay for it...lol. Regardless, if you look at re-handling in regards to pre-fab J-handles $50-150 seems fairly standard depending on size, shape and material. I can not speak for the quality difference from one place to another as I have only had one re-handle and that was out of necessity.
 
Congrats, gorgeous gyuto, I also have a 240 Watanabe (and a 270), mine with an upgraded keyaki handle, love it!

Regarding your question on ‘value.’ It’s my feeling that with +$250 chef’s knives, you’re already in the luxury knife price zone. It’s silly IMHO to nickel and dime the amount you’ve paid for a handle—you paid what you paid for a great tool. Unless you want to go down the road of self-inflicted, second guessing, or crowd sourced affirmation or masochistic negation.

You’ve purchased a knife that’ll hopefully give you years of service, so in the grand scheme of things handle price shouldn’t be an issue—if it’s a personal financial stretch, perhaps go with a perfectly functional ho wood.

Main thing is if you like the handle—aesthetics, materiality, weight, size, etc. If the f&f is an issue, just sand it down. If it’s not working, change it, simple. Handles are uber personal, a chef I know loves Global handles—despite my personal opinions to the contrary, it’s her knife, she loves it, it functions as it should, end of story.

One of the main aspects to my business is sales, selling to collectors. The primary, driving force behind every purchase to my clients is and should be ‘commitment’! I won’t sell to someone that’s on the fence. You’ve made the purchase, you’re ‘committed,’ it’s a lovely knife by a reputable cutler, made of great steel. I can give you my opinions on value/quality/aesthetics/ergonomics, but it shouldn’t matter if you like your knife. It’s in your hands, commit to it with confidence.

For future knife acquisitions, there’s quite a range of handle prices—i.e. burnt chestnut octagon and ebony is listed as $70 and $120 respectively on the JKI website. Custom handles can range from around $130 upwards, depending on materials and design considerations—there are a bunch of amazing handle makers, most tend to have their presence on Instagram—i.e., US-based J-handle makers found on IG @graydondecollibus, @pcpken, @dphamblades, @terrafernhandles, @schroederknifeworks. I’m certain because of increased market competition, forward thinking, contemporary custom Japanese handle makers, will eventually get smartly branded, informative websites.

All said, enjoy your Watanabe, it’s a beautiful knife you have, you’ve inspired me revisit my Watanabe and put it to work this evening!



This is a question of value, of course.
I'm happy to have received my first Japanese knife: 240mm Watanabe Gyuto.
I mainly have to thank all of you for sharing your experiences and opinions and indirectly convincing me to venture into this new world.
As far as handles goes, my limited exposure to D type handles gave me an impression that I'd really dislike them. So I chose to get Watanabe's octagonal ebony handle. Considering so-so fit and finish and $150 difference in price, would it have been better to upgrade the handle elsewhere?

I'm keeping this handle, but for future knives, who would you recommend for re-handling? I'm in the US.
Thanks,
Ato
P1290886.JPG

P1290887.JPG

P1290882.JPG
 
Since we're getting into a general handle discussion...

On purely aesthatic grounds, I prefer ebony or rosewood to ho (magnolia) wood handles, and I have two knives with Gaboon ebony handles. Pure black, grain so fine you almost can't see it. I like that look and feel, although I know some folks think it's too slippery. Haven't had that problem myself.

One thing I've learned though, is that ebony machined for a typical width octagon is a heavy handle. It works best on longer or heavier knives. I like the way the ebony handle balances the fairly hefty blade of my Yoshikazu Ikeda 165mm nakiri. The pinch grip is right at the balance point. It's not as good a balance on my ebony handled 165mm Sukenari petty knife, moving the balance point a little too far back. The ho wood handle of my Ikeda 190mm petty is a much better balance. I have a 120mm Ikeda petty coming that also has a ho wood handle, which should work well with that even shorter blade length.

I still don't like the look or feel of ho wood. I'm an unrepentant fan of dark woods like ebony and rosewood. But I'm learning to appreciate the balance of more lightweight wood on shorter knives, since it isn't practical to reduce the width or length of the handle to compensate the blade weight. Especially since I have fairly large hands. All of this is probably old news to the pros and long-timers here, but I've only started to appreciate it recently.
 
What a beautiful knife!!! What an amazing start to J-knives! I’m still waiting to get my first Watanabe. I was planning on getting one, until a Toyama came on the BST and I couldn’t resist. The 240 Watanabe will be my next knife probably as I have grown to love workhorse after using my Toyama. like many of the others said, don’t worry about the perceived value, if you like the knife, it was worth it. If you don’t, you can always sell it to me for a great price 😎
 
Congrats, gorgeous gyuto, I also have a 240 Watanabe (and a 270), mine with an upgraded keyaki handle, love it!

Regarding your question on ‘value.’ It’s my feeling that with +$250 chef’s knives, you’re already in the luxury knife price zone. It’s silly IMHO to nickel and dime the amount you’ve paid for a handle—you paid what you paid for a great tool. Unless you want to go down the road of self-inflicted, second guessing, or crowd sourced affirmation or masochistic negation.

You’ve purchased a knife that’ll hopefully give you years of service, so in the grand scheme of things handle price shouldn’t be an issue—if it’s a personal financial stretch, perhaps go with a perfectly functional ho wood.

Main thing is if you like the handle—aesthetics, materiality, weight, size, etc. If the f&f is an issue, just sand it down. If it’s not working, change it, simple. Handles are uber personal, a chef I know loves Global handles—despite my personal opinions to the contrary, it’s her knife, she loves it, it functions as it should, end of story.

One of the main aspects to my business is sales, selling to collectors. The primary, driving force behind every purchase to my clients is and should be ‘commitment’! I won’t sell to someone that’s on the fence. You’ve made the purchase, you’re ‘committed,’ it’s a lovely knife by a reputable cutler, made of great steel. I can give you my opinions on value/quality/aesthetics/ergonomics, but it shouldn’t matter if you like your knife. It’s in your hands, commit to it with confidence.

For future knife acquisitions, there’s quite a range of handle prices—i.e. burnt chestnut octagon and ebony is listed as $70 and $120 respectively on the JKI website. Custom handles can range from around $130 upwards, depending on materials and design considerations—there are a bunch of amazing handle makers, most tend to have their presence on Instagram—i.e., US-based J-handle makers found on IG @graydondecollibus, @pcpken, @dphamblades, @terrafernhandles, @schroederknifeworks. I’m certain because of increased market competition, forward thinking, contemporary custom Japanese handle makers, will eventually get smartly branded, informative websites.

All said, enjoy your Watanabe, it’s a beautiful knife you have, you’ve inspired me revisit my Watanabe and put it to work this evening!

:goodpost:
 
Use the knife every day for a year. Get past the buyer’s remorse and see if you come to love one of the consistently great gyutos of our time. If you don’t, just pm me and I’ll buy it.
 
Nice first knife!

I am thinking of ordering one as well and have been going through a similar thought process on whether the handle upgrades are worth it.

Do you like the ebony handle?

I do like the handle – from comfortable size to the beautiful wood. I wish there weren't three small gaps between the horn (plastic?) and the ebony. My (paranoid?) mind starts to imagine some live colonies living in those dark moist places.
 
They are really well shaped, they just lack the romance I'd expect from a $150 handle. I know I was shocked when I was talking to Sakai knife shops about what some handles cost, it's nothing to add 3-500 dollars to a blade if you get a god tier handle

I like how you put it. From what I observed and my first impression from using the knife, Wat gyuto is a great bang for the buck. I know the handle won’t detract from performance but only from the “handle romance”. The blade romance is strong. 😊
Overall, no regrets, as it is worth knowing that the knife is completely stock and thus learning Shinichi Watanabe's idea of a knife.
 
Congrats, gorgeous gyuto, I also have a 240 Watanabe (and a 270), mine with an upgraded keyaki handle, love it!

Regarding your question on ‘value.’ It’s my feeling that with +$250 chef’s knives, you’re already in the luxury knife price zone. It’s silly IMHO to nickel and dime the amount you’ve paid for a handle—you paid what you paid for a great tool. Unless you want to go down the road of self-inflicted, second guessing, or crowd sourced affirmation or masochistic negation.

You’ve purchased a knife that’ll hopefully give you years of service, so in the grand scheme of things handle price shouldn’t be an issue—if it’s a personal financial stretch, perhaps go with a perfectly functional ho wood.

Main thing is if you like the handle—aesthetics, materiality, weight, size, etc. If the f&f is an issue, just sand it down. If it’s not working, change it, simple. Handles are uber personal, a chef I know loves Global handles—despite my personal opinions to the contrary, it’s her knife, she loves it, it functions as it should, end of story.

One of the main aspects to my business is sales, selling to collectors. The primary, driving force behind every purchase to my clients is and should be ‘commitment’! I won’t sell to someone that’s on the fence. You’ve made the purchase, you’re ‘committed,’ it’s a lovely knife by a reputable cutler, made of great steel. I can give you my opinions on value/quality/aesthetics/ergonomics, but it shouldn’t matter if you like your knife. It’s in your hands, commit to it with confidence.

For future knife acquisitions, there’s quite a range of handle prices—i.e. burnt chestnut octagon and ebony is listed as $70 and $120 respectively on the JKI website. Custom handles can range from around $130 upwards, depending on materials and design considerations—there are a bunch of amazing handle makers, most tend to have their presence on Instagram—i.e., US-based J-handle makers found on IG @graydondecollibus, @pcpken, @dphamblades, @terrafernhandles, @schroederknifeworks. I’m certain because of increased market competition, forward thinking, contemporary custom Japanese handle makers, will eventually get smartly branded, informative websites.

All said, enjoy your Watanabe, it’s a beautiful knife you have, you’ve inspired me revisit my Watanabe and put it to work this evening!

Thanks for your thorough reply. I’d argue that value exists in luxury knives, or any luxury products. It’s just the more expensive the item the more biased and perceived its value becomes. One of my favorite semi-documentaries is "F for fake".

I agree, it’s a beautiful knife, and as I mentioned, I’m keeping the handle. Since I’m interested in certain esthetics (which are personal and biased), I was inquiring about craftsmen who could possibly re-handle future knives. I like the dark look of my handle, but feel free to suggest a filler for some gaps between the horn and the ebony. As this is my first Japanese knife, I didn’t know if this level of f&f is the norm, hence the whole post about it. It’s not about “second guessing, or crowd sourced affirmation”, but educating myself on hopefully future purchases.
Thank you for the extensive references of handle makers!
 
Use the knife every day for a year. Get past the buyer’s remorse and see if you come to love one of the consistently great gyutos of our time. If you don’t, just pm me and I’ll buy it.

No buyer’s remorse! 😊 I already prefer it over my 10” ZK Damascus.
 
I do like the handle – from comfortable size to the beautiful wood. I wish there weren't three small gaps between the horn (plastic?) and the ebony. My (paranoid?) mind starts to imagine some live colonies living in those dark moist places.

A couple little dabs of CA glue will fix this and won't be blatantly obvious.
 
"Value" is a fluid concept—shaped by what the buyers ultimate objectives, vendor, maker's stature/brand, product quality and market comparables, etc.

IMO, handles are a secondary concern with regards to Japanese knives. The blade—steel/design/profile/brand, etc.—is for some the most important thing, far above handle craft. I.e. no I know goes to Peter Luger's to order the salmon or chicken.

A lot of Japanese chefs I know have very basic, functional ho wood handles on their quality knives. They view handles as almost disposable, evetually getting banged around, soaked with fish guts and blood. Primary objective for them is a good blade, that gets the job done. Few will buy a Heiji, Watanabe or Masamoto because of the handles. Western buyers/makers (some not all) of Japanese knives will sometimes place a more significant value on handles than Japanese buyers. Bloodroot, Haburn, Marko, Dalman are cutlers making knives fitted with the nicest handles I've seen!

What I was trying to get across by "luxury," was that in the +$250 bracket, from a good dealer—i.e. K&S, JKI, JNS, Bernal, etc.—you're more than likely getting a good blade at a fair price, handle quality will be functional, meh to good depending on ones standards and expectations—love the burnt chesnut handles from JKI.

If you took an aggregator approach, you can possibly find a similar, maybe better crafted ebony handle than what you paid, if that's what you value. However, some would put a value on having a knife with a handle selected and installed in the knife maker's workshop.

Regarding your future purchases, if you want a "special handle," get a custom, downside is the possible waiting time, additional cost and shipping your knife to and fro. On purely functional grounds, for me I like ho and burnt chestnut octagon handles, nicely grippy when when. Ebony is a little slick/hard for me, but love the look of it, very elegant. I only have one custom, love it—but did miss my knife when it was gone. If you wanted to change a handle, some vendors like JKI re-handle with traditional J-handles. Off topic, but I wish there was a J-knife dealer in NYC that rehandles—I tried with Korin, but they told me that they ship customer's knives back to Japan for rehandling, deal breaker for me.

Below, some handles:
pgfHqWl.jpg

Here're three functional handles. Left to right: Watanabe with keyaki wood octagon, Kochi with burnt chestnut octagon, Mazaki with ho wood d-handle. The keyaki and chestnut are not perfect, but my fave handles if it came down to pure functionality.

s1I7lrQ.jpg

Tanaka with ebony, love the look of this ebony handle with brass ferrule, it is slick, but not an issue since I'm a pinch gripper. I love the design of this handle, understated, minimalistic, elegant.

XUW3e9x.jpg

Custom handle, for me it elevates the knife far above the stock handle it came with. The ferrule taper better ergonomically for how I cut. Easily the most gorgeous handle I own.

Thanks for your thorough reply. I’d argue that value exists in luxury knives, or any luxury products. It’s just the more expensive the item the more biased and perceived its value becomes. One of my favorite semi-documentaries is "F for fake".

I agree, it’s a beautiful knife, and as I mentioned, I’m keeping the handle. Since I’m interested in certain esthetics (which are personal and biased), I was inquiring about craftsmen who could possibly re-handle future knives. I like the dark look of my handle, but feel free to suggest a filler for some gaps between the horn and the ebony. As this is my first Japanese knife, I didn’t know if this level of f&f is the norm, hence the whole post about it. It’s not about “second guessing, or crowd sourced affirmation”, but educating myself on hopefully future purchases.
Thank you for the extensive references of handle makers!
 
Those of you who like ho wood better than burnt chestnut are entitled to your opinion even though you're wrong. :whistling:

Usually even the cheapest garbage-level rehandle will cost you US$100, and probably more, if you count in the cost of shipping the knife back and forth.
 

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