Canada's Sharpest Lefty
There's a big difference between Zwilling Kramers (which are apparently great knives anyways) and a midtech by Bill, Pierre, or Devin. As far as I know, the final grind (most important part of the knife, besides perhaps a good, properly treated steel) is done BY THE MAKER. a machine can cut out a shape chosen by the maker, and it can be batch HT'd in a factory somewhere, as long as the steel passes the QC by the maker and the real work is done by him. To save a couple hundred bucks, I really can't see the issue people have with mid-techs.
^ This. For stock removal knives, why on earth should cutting out the shape matter?. And if the HT passes muster, why not?
Originally Posted by Lefty
I liked "machine hand rubbed finish"
I have been interested in Bill's knives for a long time, however, as a simple chef, I cannot afford one. I would be very interested in what the midtech would produce.
So Bill, any more news on your project?
What will you do yourself, what you gonna outsource to others?
Will the profile be identical to your customs?
Will it include the "ms" stamp or your signature, gonna go for a stamp of your name on these?
Can customer upgrade the handle?
last time i talked to a MS a blade not forged or not finished by the maker is not to get theMS stamp (not sure if thats still the case )
Thanks for info
btw; found this video of Bill on the web:
I forge it like a campfire. Eveybody sits around, they stare into the campfire and you could see every dream you ever had in that fire...
Words of wisdom <3<3
I plan on using the same patterns that I use for my customs, But since I forge my customs each one ends up a little different. No M.S. stamp. to start with all handles/knives will be the same. I am going to try the custom heat treat and see what the results are, plan on doing this before having a bunch done. Like Butch said I plan on getting the rough pre heat treat grinding done. I will finish grind the blades test for edge holding etc and assemble the knives. Mark will also be different. Probably just:
Originally Posted by oivind_dahle
# xx 20xx
To me, the "mid tech" route would be very appealing for kitchen knives made from stainless. I'm not going to forge them anyway, so why not have them waterjet blanked? Likewise, I am not comfortable having a big Dewar flask full of nitrogen in my current sauna of a shop because it would probably evaporate much to quickly. If I could make knives of say AEB-L or CTS-XHP and have someone like Peters heat treat and cryo the blades after they are blanked, I might be able to get them into folks hands for a bit less than if I had to buy what would essentially be a whole new setup for heat treating stainless. I would rather spend that money on gear for doing my forged blades and damascus, like a rolling mill or high temp salt pots. Realistically, i could say the same thing about kitchen knives made from W2. Maybe I should buy some of Aldo's "skinny" .103 W-2 instead of using my finite supply of Don Hanson round bar, at least for non-integral kitchen knives. Remember also that a lot of damascus blades are NOT completely forged to shape so as not to disrupt the pattern.. Ladder pattern is a good example. I forged my "blanks" to a general shape before i laddered them, but once they were done and the ridges were ground ays, it was all basic stock removal because pressed ladders go all the way through the billet. The same with Turkish twist. You can do the "fish mouth" tip to bring the bars together, but much of the shaping of the bevels, etc. is still going to be stock removal.
yes, Bill has spent a lot of years tweaking his heat treat on 52100, but from what you guys are saying, the thing that makes his kitchen knives special are the grinds. he could just as easily do that with W2, Cru Forge, AEB-L or XHP if he chose to take the time to learn each new steel. IMO, "mid tech" knives of the type that Billis talking about (as opposed to the pure "factory" stuff that comes back to the shop merely to have G-10 scales or paracord attached and sharpened) are different from say the carbon Zwilling Kramers if for no other reason than the knifemaker is still directly involved in the entire process, even for the steps that are being outsourced.
What gets a bit lost in conversations about heat treat and farming is the fact that beyond Bill's skill I also trust him as a craftsman. If he gets back HT samples, thoroughly analyzes them and says that they're good enough, I will trust that they are good enough. I may not be buying a full-on custom Bill Burke, but I am buying a knife that the same man substantially (VERY substantially) contributed to and feels confident enough in to give his name. This isn't a Kramer by zwilling or Shun. Bill will (at least at first and maybe forever after) be far FAR more involved. At the end of the day, my interest in a mid-tech will be directly proportional to the extent to which the craftsmen was involved and my personal value judgement of their integrity and dedication to craft. If I trust that the latter two are there, I could care less who HT'd it provided that they themselves feel that it's a quality HT and a quality product.
Just my $.02
EDIT: And for the record, I would trust Bill.