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Thread: what steels and why

  1. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrey_SPb View Post
    I'm not surprised by low grades of Japanese steel - White (Shirogami) Steel and Blue (Aogami) Super Steel. But, I first saw the real difference between expressed in figures.
    I've always read that the difference between them is absolutely not noticeable in actual use. And your table is clear and significant, and for the most important criteria: Edge Holding = 5 - 8, Edge Stability = 8.5 - 5, respectively.
    Thank you. This is very interesting!

    The list of steels for the study, you wrote in your first post is a very popular and have become very good - ATS-34, S30V, CPM D2, CPM M4. Could you add a table with the results on these steels?
    We'll consider it.
    AEB-L steel was the best in your tests. Do not you think that this is due to the fact that you are working with it for a long time and have learned to “squeeze” the most out of this steel?
    No. The overall rankings are just a fun thing to look at and are based solely on the categories chosen, different steels should be chosen for different users. The categories were chosen and numbers assigned first, and overall score was simply tabulated. I do not agree in general with most of the "Overall ratings" if they had to be ranked that way. You'll notice that AEB-L has one of the lowest "edge holding" scores listed, there is no inflation here. Sharpenability and edge stability scores are not from squeezing anything out of it but from the small volume of small carbides, and these are supported by tests by Roman Landes and John Verhoeven. Accusations of bias are fine and probably justified, but looking at the numbers again I don't see it for AEB-L. Every number on the chart is arguable, however, and could be changed based on new information.
    And that other knifemakers can not get such good results. On the other hand, they can get the best results on steels, which are working for a long time and which well know and feel?
    There are ranges of performance for different steels. In general the ratings given are based on what we consider to be the "optimal" heat treatment.
    After all, you do testing knives (!), not steels! For knives, except for steel, are important correct hardening, optimal hardness and good geometry.
    That is, I want to say that the steel - not a universal concept. Knives made by different knifemakers of the same steel will show very different results!
    The ratings are based not only on knife performance but also published information from the steel manufacturers as well as independent tests from other companies or individuals researching steel. Knife designs do not change steel performance, they simply change how the steel performance is being used.
    In conclusion, I would like to draw your attention to two steel, which seem very promising for the manufacture of kitchen knives - AEB-H and the Cru-Wear. The chemical composition of these steels:
    AEB-H is 19C27. Cru-Wear knives have been made by my father in the past.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by bieniek View Post
    So what you basically say is that DTs heattreatment was optimal for both of those steels - youve tested, and you managed to get the best out of both of them?
    I don't understand "managed to get the best out of both of them?" can you clarify?

  3. #113
    Andrey_SPb's Avatar
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    Thank you, Larrin, for the detailed answer.
    I will wait with impatience your next publications.

  4. #114
    Senior Member mpukas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrey_SPb View Post
    Thank you, Larrin, for the detailed answer.
    I will wait with impatience your next publications.
    +1 !
    Shibui - simplicity devoid of unnecessary elements

  5. #115
    Great thread, though a little frustrating that some of the better performing steels are "mystery" steels that have only been experienced by a small handful of forum members. Any plans on making knives with these steels for more general consumption?

  6. #116
    I apologize for any frustration. I've had a lot of knife makers copy what I use. We've invested a lot in testing and need to hold on to any small advantage that it might bring.

    I will use any of those steels in making a knife as long as it fits the task.

    Hoss

  7. #117
    Senior Member Chefdog's Avatar
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    Devin & Larrin,
    Thanks for the information, a great thread all the way through, I thoroughly enjoyed it and learned a lot.
    I'd like to second the request to see how some of the air hardening tool steels (A2, D2, 3V) compare to the better carbon and stainless, namely AEB-L & 52100. Thanks again for the contribution.
    Jake

  8. #118
    I've made kitchen knives out of A-2 and 3-V, hunting knives out of D-2. D-2 has high wear resistance but does not make the best kitchen knives due to the fact that it has some of the largest carbides in tool steels. A-2 makes an okay knife, I like several steels better. I have not used 3-V enough to know yet. The knives I have made with 3-V have been in damascus mixed with 154cm.

    Hoss

  9. #119
    Senior Member Chefdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevinT View Post
    I've made kitchen knives out of A-2 and 3-V, hunting knives out of D-2. D-2 has high wear resistance but does not make the best kitchen knives due to the fact that it has some of the largest carbides in tool steels. A-2 makes an okay knife, I like several steels better. I have not used 3-V enough to know yet. The knives I have made with 3-V have been in damascus mixed with 154cm.

    Hoss
    Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

  10. #120
    Any thoughts on Cowrey X or ZDP-189? I've had a couple stainless Damascus wrapped Gyutos by Ichiro Hattori utilizing these core steels with great success.
    "Only the knife knows what goes on in the heart of a pumpkin."

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