Hattori FH

Hi

With all the talk about KD's and Mr Hattori's health is there a likelyhood the FH knives could either disappear or suffer a quality drop off.

Ive never seen one but they have a great reputation for quality and F&F so im just curious on what might happen.

Are they FH's as well finished as repuation suggests ?

Would it sensible to grab a Gyuto or Deba in the near future or is the line safe and secure with someone taking over ?

Alan

welshstar said:

Hi

With all the talk about KD's and Mr Hattori's health is there a likelyhood the FH knives could either disappear or suffer a quality drop off.

Ive never seen one but they have a great reputation for quality and F&F so im just curious on what might happen.

Are they FH's as well finished as repuation suggests ?

Would it sensible to grab a Gyuto or Deba in the near future or is the line safe and secure with someone taking over ?

Alan

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I think JCK claims he checks every knife from the FH himself to see if they meet his standards. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, we're going to have to take JCK's word on that. Even if he stops checking them himself I doubt the F&F would change much. Remember, he doesn't actually work on the FH line.
As for the line being around in the future, I thought I heard that he has a couple of sons that will continue on the family business. Anyone know for sure?

I wasn't particularly impressed with the FH series knives. They are just good solid knives with nicer handles than most, if you're into handles. I can't say I've had too many handle issues and I've tried out a lot of knives.

I don't think you have to worry. I like my FH 240 gyuto. I think its a great profile w/ a well treated VG-10. When I bought it I was deciding between it and a Nenox G-type. I don't think Hattori personally held my knife and gave an "ok" on it. It's a very nice stainless knife that takes a few swipes on the stones to make it enjoyable to use.

tk59 said:

I wasn't particularly impressed with the FH series knives. They are just good solid knives with nicer handles than most, if you're into handles. I can't say I've had too many handle issues and I've tried out a lot of knives.

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You've mentioned in a number of posts, about not caring for the FH knives. Is there a back ground story on what led you to your current opinion on the line? Maybe a series of bad knives from JCK? Not caring for VG-10?

I'm also curious about how you rank your knifes? What qualities or properties are you looking for in a knife?

I would find it difficult and if not impossible to rank the knives that I own. I test my knives by cutting vegetables, namely onions, tomatoes, garlic, celery and carrot. At the end of day, I can say, which knife I prefer to use to chop up an onion. That knife may not be as good another knife for dicing a tomato.

Also which confuses the issue for me, in rating knives, is wondering is the knives performance due to my cutting technique, or sharpening skills. I've had days, where I've flown thrown large quantities of food with ease and then other days where I feel awkward prepping a small amount of food. Some knives, when I first got them, didn't impress me, even after being sharpened a few times, but after the third or forth sharpening the knives started to perform.

Two under performing knives out of the box, were from the FH line. I think there was some posts about it, when the FH knives were released. It took a few times, before I got the edge I wanted on them. Now they are two of my better performing knifes.

I know you are a much better sharpener then I am. If I could put a nice edge on them, then you should be to put an incredibly keen edge on them. If you have put your edge on them, and you still feel that they are middling performers, then I would really like to know your standards.

Jay

jaybett said:

You've mentioned in a number of posts, about not caring for the FH knives. Is there a back ground story on what led you to your current opinion on the line? Maybe a series of bad knives from JCK? Not caring for VG-10?

I'm also curious about how you rank your knifes? What qualities or properties are you looking for in a knife?

I would find it difficult and if not impossible to rank the knives that I own. I test my knives by cutting vegetables, namely onions, tomatoes, garlic, celery and carrot. At the end of day, I can say, which knife I prefer to use to chop up an onion. That knife may not be as good another knife for dicing a tomato.

Also which confuses the issue for me, in rating knives, is wondering is the knives performance due to my cutting technique, or sharpening skills. I've had days, where I've flown thrown large quantities of food with ease and then other days where I feel awkward prepping a small amount of food. Some knives, when I first got them, didn't impress me, even after being sharpened a few times, but after the third or forth sharpening the knives started to perform.

Two under performing knives out of the box, were from the FH line. I think there was some posts about it, when the FH knives were released. It took a few times, before I got the edge I wanted on them. Now they are two of my better performing knifes.

I know you are a much better sharpener then I am. If I could put a nice edge on them, then you should be to put an incredibly keen edge on them. If you have put your edge on them, and you still feel that they are middling performers, then I would really like to know your standards.

Jay

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I've said before that I don't think my edges are amazing. A lot of people here can and do produce similar edges. That said, I evaluate the cutting performance of knives by sharpening them and then cutting a lot of different items with them with a number of different techniques. As I cut, I constantly switch knives between the tester and my stock TKC, as well as a host of other knives that excel at various tasks. The most important attributes are the ease with which the blade passes through food, how it feels cutting through food and how much sticking I get. All of these add up to preference. The TKC my standard because it is well finished, cuts very nicely in every test and doesn't stick like crazy although it isn't great in this respect. Ease of achieving a nice edge and how long it stays pleasurable to use are also very important to me. Fit and finish and aesthetics are low on my priority list as long as the knife is comfortable. I don't have a problem with rounding choils and spines, etc but if I'm paying big bucks for a knife, there'd better be something special about it. I realize that it is subjective and it is possible that I think I know how to cut things and I actually don't but I doubt it. If I take a sharp knife and cut a load of material and I'm still enjoying myself after a few weeks, it's an awesome cutter. If I go through all of my cutting test objects and I feel a strong inclination to pick up my stock TKC to finish it up, it is a sub-par cutter.

I like my FH a lot. The VG10 they're made from is definitely a little better than others I've tried. I like the profile a lot too, it is a little different than what is popular, but I think it is much better. If you're wondering if they're gonna discontinue them, I have noticed that they're phasing out the awesome display case/boxes and they're just moving to cardboard ones now. Just something to consider. If you really want one, they seem to come up on BST reasonably often

i like my FH, enough that it's the only stainless gyuto i've kept. i don't use it much, though, to be honest.

tk59 said:

I've said before that I don't think my edges are amazing. A lot of people here can and do produce similar edges. That said, I evaluate the cutting performance of knives by sharpening them and then cutting a lot of different items with them with a number of different techniques. As I cut, I constantly switch knives between the tester and my stock TKC, as well as a host of other knives that excel at various tasks. The most important attributes are the ease with which the blade passes through food, how it feels cutting through food and how much sticking I get. All of these add up to preference. The TKC my standard because it is well finished, cuts very nicely in every test and doesn't stick like crazy although it isn't great in this respect. Ease of achieving a nice edge and how long it stays pleasurable to use are also very important to me. Fit and finish and aesthetics are low on my priority list as long as the knife is comfortable. I don't have a problem with rounding choils and spines, etc but if I'm paying big bucks for a knife, there'd better be something special about it. I realize that it is subjective and it is possible that I think I know how to cut things and I actually don't but I doubt it. If I take a sharp knife and cut a load of material and I'm still enjoying myself after a few weeks, it's an awesome cutter. If I go through all of my cutting test objects and I feel a strong inclination to pick up my stock TKC to finish it up, it is a sub-par cutter.

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Thanks for your reply.

I'm still curious why Hattori is a sore subject for you? It seems every time there has been a question about Hattori knives, over the past few years, your replies have been negative on their performance and value. There has been criticism about the FH series, sharp spine and choil, and its out of the box sharpness. Some members have not cared for its profile.

I picked up a 240mm FH gyuto a month ago. For me its a nice compromise, between a laser and a work horse, not to thick, not to thin. What has struck me so far about the knife is its tip. Tip work, especially dicing up an onion has been very easy. While cutting up veggies, I wondered a few times, if this is what you were talking about in your search for the ideal tip?

The FH gyuto is a nice addition to my bag. Its performance is in the same league, as the rest of my gyutos. If there was a person who only wanted to get one or two nice Japanese knives, the Forum gyuto, would be my recommendation. Excellent fit and finish. I don't own any custom knives yet, but I haven't seen a production knife with better fit and finish. The handle is superb. It is a easy knife to sharpen. It cuts well, especially the tip. The price is reasonable.

I've no vested interest in Hattori. If you don't like Hattori knives, that is understandable with personal preference. When you say that Hattori knives are middling cutters, my experience has been the opposite that they do a nice job of cutting. My curiosity is where is the disconnect coming from?

Jay

jaybett said:

...I'm still curious why Hattori is a sore subject for you? It seems every time there has been a question about Hattori knives, over the past few years, your replies have been negative on their performance and value. There has been criticism about the FH series, sharp spine and choil, and its out of the box sharpness. Some members have not cared for its profile.

I picked up a 240mm FH gyuto a month ago. For me its a nice compromise, between a laser and a work horse, not to thick, not to thin. What has struck me so far about the knife is its tip. Tip work, especially dicing up an onion has been very easy. While cutting up veggies, I wondered a few times, if this is what you were talking about in your search for the ideal tip?

The FH gyuto is a nice addition to my bag. Its performance is in the same league, as the rest of my gyutos. If there was a person who only wanted to get one or two nice Japanese knives, the Forum gyuto, would be my recommendation. Excellent fit and finish. I don't own any custom knives yet, but I haven't seen a production knife with better fit and finish. The handle is superb. It is a easy knife to sharpen. It cuts well, especially the tip. The price is reasonable...

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I have no hard feelings about Hattori or Hattori products. There's no soreness here. I've examined, used and sharpened a couple of FH's (only one gyuto) and I did find it to be solid but unremarkable in every way other than the handle was very custom. Personally, I do not find that most of these contoured handles offer a real advantage in my hands. At $250, I'd much rather get any of the highly regarded less expensive knives including but not limited to Hattori HD, Fujiwara, Inazuma, TKC, CarboNEXT, or Glestain. I definitely didn't see any tip magic on the FH either. It was just good. Again, it's not a bad knife. I think there are a lot of better knives for less money. I don't have a problem with you endorsing them either. You're obviously critical and thoughtful and I appreciate that. It is possibly I tried out a lemon. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to trying out your FH, if you think it will change my mind.

I have a 270 FH gyuto. It was one of first J-knives. It's also my least used J-nife now. It's not that I don't like it, but I find I like to use a couple of other knives better. I agree it's a nice compromise bewteen a workhorse and a laser. I find the F&F excellent, and the handle is probably the best western handle I've personally used (if not a little on the small side near the bolster). I find it sharpens easily and takes a great edge, and responds fairly well to a rod when in a pinch. I find the VG-10 in this blade similar in characteristics to the white #2 in my Yusuke - sharpens easily, takes a sharp edge and has decent retention - white #2 wins out in over all sharpness though.

My main issues with it are the non-round spine and choil, the blade edge in front of the heel has a bit more belly than I like, and - this is a big "and" - the grind is completely flat. The is no convexity at all. Maybe I'm just caught up it the latest fad about convex blade faces, but my other knives have some degree of convexity, and I like that. Maybe this was a feture that was overlooked when the knife was designed. If it had a convex grind I think I would rank it higher in my small stable. The geometry is unique to this knife, which is nice in a sea of laser-clones - but damn those laser-clones are pretty darn good...

I've often considered selling it to make way for something else - and there are many knives out there that I want to try and I'm sure I would prefer - but ever time I pick up the knife to consider, I think this is a really nice knife and I should use it more often. FWIW, I also like that the FH series has a good selection of blade styless, sizes and types. When someone asks about a good high-end knife brand to outfit their home kitchen, I recommend this series, because many home cooks like knives that match.

My view is similar to TK's on this series. The FH line never appealed to me much..the profile, blade shape and steel never got me excited; however, I do understand why people really like them.

My experience was only using a 240 gyuto, and there was just nothing about it that 'wowed' me besides the cool carbon-fiber looking micarta handle. I would personally go CarboNext every single time for much less--just my opinion.

Jay, I also don't own a custom...never had an itch for them as I focus on performance over aesthetics, and my production knives all cut like beasts with the edge modifications I put on them.

I have a Forum petty on its way so I'll reserve judgement on them till I've had a chance to use and sharpen it. It's a knife that intrigues me as on paper it's very run of the mill, with the potential for style over substance-I buy a knife for the blade rather than the handle. They get a lot of praise though so it was on my list of knives to try, can't justify another gyuto though given that most of my want list is them......
I really want to be wowed