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Elcee

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My current knife selection leaves a lot to be desired and as a National Supermarket is currently offering a "70% off Professional Knives" promotional offer I thought I'd take advantage of it. I started reading up yesterday on which of the blades available would be of most use to me, leading me to this forum and ultimately to the conclusion that aforementioned supermarket can take their no-name "Professional" knives and park them somewhere dark and uncomfortable whilst I go buy a Great Knife. Unfortunately I'm now a little over-whelmed by choice and options (and inexperience).

How much should I be looking to spend in order to get the highest quality/best steel? (Also, I am willing to bet "highest quality steel" is a subjective question, so what are the choices? I've heard terms like VG-10 and er NDP189 or something, but these terms are meaningless to me.)

Blade profiles; what should I look for? Or is it best to pick a length of blade and budget and ask you folks for specific suggestions?

I think I want something somewhere in the region of 160-180mm (+/- 30mm). I don't rock the blade, so a straighter edge is preferable. I'm a total novice when it comes to maintenance so I think I should be aiming for stainless?

What type of knife(s) do you think you want?
Something for chopping Veg and the odd cut of meat. From what I can tell, any of the 3 main Japanese "types" would do it for me, but 10" (Over 210mm) is too long for me. I'm having trouble working out the differences in use and capabilities between the Nakiri, Santoku and Gyuto
Why is it being purchased? What, if anything, are you replacing?
I currently have one sharp knife. It's about 2.5" and used for everything from chopping veg to carving last Sunday's roast chicken.

What do you like and dislike about these qualities of your knives already?
If pushed, I guess I could say I like that they match? I think it was a £6.99 set of 6 from IKEA...
Aesthetics-
I first saw Damascus steel yesterday and I think I have a problem.
Edge Quality/Retention-
Unless I'm missing something (and I hope I am) all knifes should be able to take and retain a good edge? Ease of Use-
I'm not sure I understand this question. As long as it's sharp, not too long to handle or too short to do the job then aren't most blades easy to use?
Comfort-
I'll be using this in the kitchen, not cuddling up to it at night, therefore this isn't a primary concern of mine.

What grip do you use?
A variant on the Hammer that I call The Woodsaw.

What kind of cutting motion do you use?
I naturally tend towards a push or pull. Never had any success trying to Rock out, but that could be as much due to my blades as anything else.

Where do you store them?
I believe if I answer this truthfully I should get banned from this site (Hint: Don't open my top drawer). A better question would be "Where *will* you store them?" to which I'll reply I'll probably look into a nice wooden block or a mag strip once the kitchen has been decorated.
Have you ever oiled a handle?
Nope, but then I've never had a wooden handle.
What kind of cutting board(s) do you use?
Glass. Is that good or bad?
For edge maintenance, do you use a strop, honing rod, pull through/other, or nothing?
I've used pull throughs in the past, but generally nothing. Learning how to sharpen and maintain a decent blade will form part of the buying process.

Have they ever been sharpened?
If I was posting this from home I'd post a close-up of the edge of what should be passing for my chef's knife. In short; I've seen sharper spoons (I used the previously mentioned 2.5" blade to carve last Sundays roast because the chefs/carving knife wasn't up to the task).

What is your budget?
I'm going to struggle with this until I get the answer to my question about how much I'd have to pay to get the best quality steel. To be honest I have 2 budgets. There's one for the ideal functional knife and then there's another budget for the ideal damascus steel knife. However it seems as though my tastes in damascus steel are hard to cater for. I have developed a love at first sight unhealthy infactuation with the more regular patterned steel (Devin Thomas, Del Ealy, some others). I've not been as taken with what seems to be the Japanese style of patterning i.e. the blobs turning into wavy lines (with the exception of Hattori KD ~drools~) but I have seen exceptions on http://japanesechefsknife.com/SPECIALS.html such as the those headed "VG-10 Multi Color Damascus Custom Line" (but I dislike the handles immensely), "Core-Less Special Damascus Series From Echizen Japan" but I don't know if Core-Less is a good thing or a bad thing (I guess gives more flex in the blade?) and "JCK Exclusive !! ZDP-189 Damascus Custom Line
" (Mostly sold out or over budget). Also not as fond of the handles as others I've seen (but the pattern in the damascus is real nice). However the price of those seem to be round the price of some of the custom manufacturers I've seen (unfortunately always sold out)


What do you cook and how often?
No sushi, but just about anything else is fair game.

Special requests(Country of origin/type of wood/etc)?
No Ivory handles!

If I've been too vague or non-specific please say or push me in the right direction for working out the answer.
 
Welcome to the forum. Yes, bewilderment is often the reaction when you first get involved with good knives, but the good people here will do their best to guide you.

My first suggestion is to read the book "An Edge in the Kitchen" by Chad Ward, not so much as to get recommendations for a particular knife, but to give you some knowledge with which to understand the replies you get here. It's available from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0061188484/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

To answer some of your specific questions, there really is no such thing as "best quality steel". Each steel used to make a kitchen knife has its pros and cons. You can read more about knife steels at Gator's website:

http://zknives.com/index.shtml

I share your fascination with damascus blades, but I'd suggest that you start with an inexpensive gyuto as your first knife, as you will likely scuff the sides as you learn to sharpen.

Rick
 
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I'm not the most experienced member here, but for what it's worth, I think a Gyuto may be the best fit for you. Definitely invest in a new cutting board, wood is the way to go. Sharpening is something that you need to be willing to learn; so consider that you will need a stone or two shortly after purchasing your knife along with a honing rod. Pull through's are not going to cut it and if you want to invest in a good quality blade, hand sharpening is something that comes with it. Alternatively, you could send it out to be professionally sharpened and just do touch-ups, but if you're in for a penny, might as well be in for a pound.

A budget number would probably help the more senior members in recommending specific knives to you. Also, you may want to contact some of the supported vendors and or visit their websites.
 
Thanks for the reply shinob1. Learning to sharpen and maintain my new toy is part of the fun :) As I don't know the difference between a £100, £150 and £200 knife its hard to know what I should budget (although I think I'm sure that the difference between a £200 and £400 knife is aesthetic/branding.. can the same be said for a £150 knife?). I'm looking for a knife set that will last me until my arthritic fingers can no longer lift them (or we're all living on food in pill form) so I'm willing to be flexible on my budget now if it means I won't be too tempted to replace them in a couple years time (however adding to it is definitely the plan)

I'm shunning Pensacola Tiger for giving me a perfectly reasonable reason as to why there won't be a damascus blade in my immediate future! I'm going to go console myself with reading zknives .cry. (However if a certain someone over in the Knifemaking vendor forum posts an available <240mm blade I don't think I'd be able to resist, even if it means I'll have to buy another knife to practice on)
 
Yeah I'd read dragonlord's post, but he was after something much longer than I'd feel comfortable using. I read the "CarboNext" marketing blurb and was feeling a little cynical about whether it was accurate.

A more specific question.. Comparing the $109 CarboNext 210mm Gyuto http://japanesechefsknife.com/HONKO-2.jpg to the $350 Hattori HD Damascus blade ManateeAndy linked to. How much of the price difference is down to the Hattori name, how much is down to the pretty factor and how much is down to using a "known" steel? (Do you pay for geometry or just assume anything recommended here is a right enough shape?)

Would the Hattori get sharper and hold it's edge longer than the CarboNext due to harder steel with more vanadium (Thanks Pensacola..) with the downside that it would be more effort to get that edge and being more prone to rust/oxidise ?

Is a glass chopping board that bad? I'd heard tales that wood boards are unhygenic, is there a third option?
 
I am pretty sure the Carbonext would hold and edge longer and get sharper than the HD. If you really want damascus the Inazuma line at JCK also looks good and is very very cheap
 
Yeah I'd read dragonlord's post, but he was after something much longer than I'd feel comfortable using. I read the "CarboNext" marketing blurb and was feeling a little cynical about whether it was accurate.

A more specific question.. Comparing the $109 CarboNext 210mm Gyuto http://japanesechefsknife.com/HONKO-2.jpg to the $350 Hattori HD Damascus blade ManateeAndy linked to. How much of the price difference is down to the Hattori name, how much is down to the pretty factor and how much is down to using a "known" steel? (Do you pay for geometry or just assume anything recommended here is a right enough shape?)

Would the Hattori get sharper and hold it's edge longer than the CarboNext due to harder steel with more vanadium (Thanks Pensacola..) with the downside that it would be more effort to get that edge and being more prone to rust/oxidise ?

Is a glass chopping board that bad? I'd heard tales that wood boards are unhygenic, is there a third option?

Glass chopping boards are terribly hard on knives, wood boards are not unhygienic in the slightest, but their owners can be.

The "Hattori" HD isn't even a Hattori. It's a rebadge, made by Ryusen, available as many brands (also known as an OEM blade). It's VG-10, which many dislike here, but it's a perfectly competent cutlery steel. Some think that "Hattori's" heat treat of VG-10 (usually when referring to the FH series) makes it superior to other VG-10 blades. As I mentioned though, the HD ain't a Hattori.

The carbonext is a clear value leader, made from a semi-stainless tool steel that is highly regarded here. Tough, hard and easy to sharpen by all accounts.

Inazuma is a good call for the Damascus look. 19C27 is a well regarded steel too. This is also an OEM knife, offered by may brands - Yoshihiro hammered damascus, Togiharu hammered damascus, Kanetsune hamm.... etc etc.
 
Yeah I'd read dragonlord's post, but he was after something much longer than I'd feel comfortable using. I read the "CarboNext" marketing blurb and was feeling a little cynical about whether it was accurate.

A more specific question.. Comparing the $109 CarboNext 210mm Gyuto http://japanesechefsknife.com/HONKO-2.jpg to the $350 Hattori HD Damascus blade ManateeAndy linked to. How much of the price difference is down to the Hattori name, how much is down to the pretty factor and how much is down to using a "known" steel? (Do you pay for geometry or just assume anything recommended here is a right enough shape?)

Would the Hattori get sharper and hold it's edge longer than the CarboNext due to harder steel with more vanadium (Thanks Pensacola..) with the downside that it would be more effort to get that edge and being more prone to rust/oxidise ?

Is a glass chopping board that bad? I'd heard tales that wood boards are unhygenic, is there a third option?

$350? I see the HD 210 gyuto listed at $172. I would go with the CarboNext but both are good knives. Glass cutting boards are terrible on knife edges, practically anything else would be a better choice. Wood boards are extremely safe, but if you want you can go with a wood composite (Epicurean) or rubber (Sani-tuff). That being said BoardSMITH end grain boards are the cream of the crop.
 
Do you pay for geometry or just assume anything recommended here is a right enough shape?

Welcome aboard! Ah, geometry and profile are two words we use a lot around here (because they are important) and I believe you're thinking about profile. The shape of the knife - tip is here, heel is there, how is all the stuff in between? - is the profile, and that's really what we're talking about when considering gyuto vs santoku vs nakiri here.

Geometry refers to how the blade is shaped from the spine to the cutting edge. In most cases, it's not a straight line from spine to edge. How you go from spine to edge is the geometry and greatly affects how the knife performs for you.
 
You may have problem getting your hands on a sani-tuff in the uk, shipping costs as much as the board last i checked. yes the HD is $172 so not quite a leap x). Definitely no glass boards please lol. the carbonxt is a better performer and a great value knife (tho obviously not damascus) the Inazuma/Gekko line on JCK seems a good option fitting your criteria.
 
Welcome Elcee.

David "the Boardsmith" makes incredible cutting boards. I just picked one up as a gift for my mother's new kitchen (a dark walnut) and it's gorgeous. Whether you end up ordering from him or not (not sure what shipping would cost to the UK), you should read the FAQ on his website so you know what to look for in an alternative. Glass cutting boards are brutal on knives. Get rid of it ASAP.

I think my favorite damascus knife on the JCK (Japanese Chef's Knife) website is the Mr. Tanaka with Ironwood handle. Beautiful knife, but it would set you back $460 USD for a 210mm gyuto (it's also sold out at the moment). I think the Inazuma line looks nice too (and they are 1/3 the price). Your best bet could be a Carbonext however, which are always mentioned as a great starter knife with a lot of bang for your buck. Plus you could learn to sharpen with it and spring for a pretty damascus blade down the road when you are more sure of your likes/dislikes.

Good luck with your decision.
 
I'm very happy with my carboNext, and would readily recommend it as an entry level knife for high end knives. Although I am still keeping my old cheap knife for heavy tasks like boning and peeling pumpkin/butternut squash.

The knife I bought is 20mm (2") longer than my previous knife, but it feels lighter and easier to control. I've also not needed to touch up the edge yet dispite doing enough cooking that I would have needed to take my old knife to the sharpener

I've also found that a full bolster is the bane of knife sharpening (on my old knife) as you can't sharpen right up to the bolster, and so tend to end up with a blunt patch and raised area (which is really annoying for cutting things with skins on look up accordion cuts)
 
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I'll leave the knife recommendations to the experts here. There are lots of them.

One sure way to start off right would be to call Jon at Japanese Knife Imports and do exactly as he recommends.

If you are getting interested in knives, you have to learn to sharpen them. If you want an inexpensive start, you can get a King 1000 stone, or something similar, watch Jon's videos on his web site about how to use the stone, and start practicing on your present knives. Go slowly. As in most endeavors, accuracy (keeping the angle correct) comes from concentration and discipline. Speed will come of its own accord in time. You will need to keep the stone surface flat, which you can do with sandpaper attached to a piece of glass (the only proper use for glass around knives). Once you are getting good edges on the old knives, you can start using the stone on your new knife without damaging it. Then the fun begins.

Somewhere on the forum is a list of cutting board surfaces from worst to best, but I can't find it. Someone here will know where it is.
 
Found the board list:

"Here's a generally-accepted order of board desirability, from worst to best(not just for how they treat your knives):
Glass
bamboo
Poly
Foldable plastic
edge-grain wood
high-quality end-grain bamboo
sani-tuff
end-grain wood
Boardsmith"
 

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