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Maksim - A request :) - Page 4
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Thread: Maksim - A request :)

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by mainaman View Post
    Actually with hard J-nts diamond plates are not the best choice, the best slurry is nagura then tomonagura. Diamond plates scratch the stone and then the finish is not as uniform, not to mention stray diamonds on the surface will scratch the bevels.
    I know some sellers recommend atomas for slurry and claim Iwasaki uses them but several people went to visit Iwasaki and found out he does not use atoma or any other diamond plate for that matter.
    Iwasaki-san does indeed use Atoma and even a synthetic 30k shapton to finish his Kamisori. My friend visited Kousuke Iwasaki-san some 3-4 years ago and I'm quite sure he mentioned seeing several Atoma as well as the synthetics. If you really insist on the matter I'll ask him.

    Diamond plates that scratch the stones are either cheaply made, inaccurate or of too coarse grit. Many that use plates don't know this and puts a wrong face on the stone, hampering the performance greatly. I have 4 different plates for example to cover everything from grinding to polishing so that I can match the face I put with the plate exactly to the stone.

    If it's DMT you've tested, they're too inaccurate. If you haven't used DMT (or Atoma) and the plate was priced at below $200 then you run into that same problem of cupping the stone and creating scratches. Speaking of stray "diamonds" scratching the bevel by the way (again only from cheap or bad diamond plates), anything except tomo-nagura and good plates really scratches the soft jigane and makes it very difficult to precision hone tools that has to be flat.

    You loose much of the control and accuracy adding in a rougher stone and especially so if it's a Suita you're using. There are particular types of Jnats though that can produce "steel scratchers" that a tomo-nagura or even a full-size identical stone is great at removing but that's very few stones we're talking about.

    People have to keep in mind that Iwasaki-san's "Hamono no Mikata" was written long before good diamond plates reached the market. Much has changed since then but I do understand if one wishes to stay traditional and not rely on the technology of the plates.

    mainaman, I wish you to understand that it's especially with hard Jnats that diamond plates truly shines and become incredible tools. The finish and speed that I can work with at after rubbing a 1200x Atoma (never use coarse plates on polishing stones) a few seconds is without a doubt superior. The change is literally so big that the stone itself feels different, which is what happens when you use the stone's own particles instead of another, coarser and completely different stone to get a slurry.

    Here in the west we really don't have many options regarding diamond plates, in Jp it's not very hard to find a $300-500 plate. Compared to them the accuracy on ours is really terrible as well, or I am yet to have found a company that produces an accurate plate with a good glide.

    Regards
    Hal

    Oh and by the way, I can share pics of some Jnats as well if it's of interest.

    Aiiwadanii, incredibly clean specimen.

    Uchigumori Jibiki. Rare, rare sword polishing stone.

  2. #32
    Hmm my source just visited Iwasaki yesterday and he say he do not use Atoma to create slurry on Jnats.

    BTW the picture you just posted is from very unreliable seller in Japan that sells things on Japanese Yahoo Auction, he been thrown away from Natural stone association just couple years ago for selling fake stones.

    So now i know where you have all that wrong info from

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Halicon View Post
    Iwasaki-san does indeed use Atoma and even a synthetic 30k shapton to finish his Kamisori. My friend visited Kousuke Iwasaki-san some 3-4 years ago and I'm quite sure he mentioned seeing several Atoma as well as the synthetics. If you really insist on the matter I'll ask him.
    2 people visited in the last year he specifically told them he does not use (actually it is not him he does not sharpen anymore , it is his apprentice Mizouchi San) diamond plates.

    Diamond plates that scratch the stones are either cheaply made, inaccurate or of too coarse grit. Many that use plates don't know this and puts a wrong face on the stone, hampering the performance greatly. I have 4 different plates for example to cover everything from grinding to polishing so that I can match the face I put with the plate exactly to the stone.
    I guess then my 1.2k Atoma is cheaply made, it scratches the stones every time I use it and it swell broken in, I have had it for 2 years now.

    mainaman, I wish you to understand that it's especially with hard Jnats that diamond plates truly shines and become incredible tools. The finish and speed that I can work with at after rubbing a 1200x Atoma (never use coarse plates on polishing stones) a few seconds is without a doubt superior. The change is literally so big that the stone itself feels different, which is what happens when you use the stone's own particles instead of another, coarser and completely different stone to get a slurry.
    I understand the hard Jnats very well, I use the hardest there is for razors, a lot of them, and diamond plates do not go well with such stones.


    Oh and by the way, I can share pics of some Jnats as well if it's of interest.
    are those from the so called So "father" ?

    .

  4. #34
    That's odd because this man isn't in the Kyoto stone association. I arrived to that man to complete my Uchigumori collection so I'm not his student.
    You say "your source" and in short order jump on "my source". Would you consider it acceptable if I ask who your source is since you know mine, he mines in Takashima right?

  5. #35
    I guess then my 1.2k Atoma is cheaply made, it scratches the stones every time I use it and it swell broken in, I have had it for 2 years now.

    How do you use it and with what stones do you have?

    I understand the hard Jnats very well, I use the hardest there is for razors, a lot of them, and diamond plates do not go well with such stones.

    I've had no problems working my Atoma 1200x on the hardest of Asagi, zero scratches.

    are those from the so called So "father" ?

    I would rather not talk about another stone retailer in the forum for JNS itself, but yes, some are from that source.

  6. #36

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by maxim View Post
    No one mines in Takashima. It is closed long time ago !
    I showed you mine, where's yours?

  8. #38
    That seller ones sold stones on KEZUROUKAI in Japan big association for Natural stones and tools, after he sold some fake stones he was thrown out and can never sell anything there again.
    Now he sells stones on Yahoo Auction with wrong labeling under name Murashita

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Halicon View Post
    I showed you mine, where's yours?
    What do i have to show ??

  10. #40
    Could you please show me an auction? It's quite hard to find any publications about being thrown out from Kezuroukai for selling fakes. The ones I've received aren't painted though and appear to the best of my skill to be genuine.

    So you're not getting stones from 330mate?

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