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  1. #21
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    try the illegal Mexicans, hard workers I tell you.

  2. #22
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    Craigs List - Hadn't thought of that but will look.

    The local high schools, community colleges and colleges have all done away with their shop classes. I called all within a 30 mile radius and got no where last year.

    The last guy said he had done finish work but couldn't read a tape measure.

    I will try some of the local cabinet shops to see if they know of a good worker who needs work.

    Maybe I will continue to work it solo until I get to big to do so. At least I know the boss and can argue with him if needed.

    Thanks all!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by memorael View Post
    try the illegal Mexicans, hard workers I tell you.
    haha... so true

  4. #24
    Senior Member ThEoRy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by memorael View Post
    try the illegal Mexicans, hard workers I tell you.
    No. That's exactly why skilled workers in America are forced to take lesser wages than they are worth. Miguel the illegal has 9 roommates and can afford to work for $8.00 an hour. John Smith, a skilled worker, is married with children, needs work and is only offered $10.00-$10.50 because of illegal labor wage competition.

    Don't tell me I'm making things up either. I've seen it a hundred times before and even was John Smith a few times.
    Starting this harvest I'm a starving startling artist/
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThEoRy View Post
    No. That's exactly why skilled workers in America are forced to take lesser wages than they are worth. Miguel the illegal has 9 roommates and can afford to work for $8.00 an hour. John Smith, a skilled worker, is married with children, needs work and is only offered $10.00-$10.50 because of illegal labor wage competition.

    Don't tell me I'm making things up either. I've seen it a hundred times before and even was John Smith a few times.
    Do you know any Illegal's? cause the ones that I used to work with must have been millionaires or something because they all had their own apartment and the owners of the place highly regarded them because and I quote "million's of people have worked in these kitchens, of those millions 5 of them still work here because they work the hardest" guess what they were.

  6. #26
    Either you can't find good workers or large companies would rather pay less and get so/so workers.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThEoRy View Post
    No. That's exactly why skilled workers in America are forced to take lesser wages than they are worth. Miguel the illegal has 9 roommates and can afford to work for $8.00 an hour. John Smith, a skilled worker, is married with children, needs work and is only offered $10.00-$10.50 because of illegal labor wage competition.

    Don't tell me I'm making things up either. I've seen it a hundred times before and even was John Smith a few times.
    Yeah, it's not really a concrete comparison. We take home different amounts, and can buy different things with that money.

    I worked a sushi bar, and got paid a flat salary, working 65 hours a week, my wife and daughter were at home(then only one daughter). I could barely cover my bills, and our one luxury was a Netflix account. We never ate out, we didn't go on a single date, I didn't even purchase a pair of shoes. I got 2 knives and a stone with my income tax return that year.

    Meanwhile, the guy in the back that crept across the border got paid under the table, and was being paid out 60% of what I was. But in order to keep him there, the boss used their old, paid off house to shelter their under the table workers, and drove them to work in a van in the morning. So he had no rent, no car insurance/repairs/payments, no gas, no food, no electric bill, and no taxes. He sent some of his money back to family in Mexico, where a liver operation to save his father's life cost him what he spent on beer in a month--$700usd.

    He tried to tell me one day that I made more money because I was a sushi chef. I then compared paychecks, asked about his bills and how much the exchange rate to mexico was, and what that could buy back home. The end result? He worked one less day a week than I did, and got 212% more than I got paid. It's not my boss' fault, or his. Nobody's scheming this thing out, it's just the end result of a backward system.


    And as far as illegal immigrants working hard--you bet! If you walked 1200 miles through Mexico/Central America, got raped, robbed, and beaten a few times, thrown off the roof of a train, left to die of thirst in the desert by a coyote, snuck past a few dozen varieties of armed law enforcement, faced drug cartels and murdering thugs, and lived a double life in a foreign land to feed your family in Guatemala--yeah, you're probably a go-getter.

    There is an implication, however, that it is morally acceptable to pay someone however little they are willing to take to do a job. If an out of work roofer comes to you and says "My family has just enough money to buy food, and used clothing to send our children to school, but we can't make rent this month. I will re-roof your house, I can tell it needs it. You pay materials, and I will do the job for $400 because it will take 2 weeks and that is what I need to cover rent at the end of the month." He may be willing to do anything for his family, and might be grateful and happy to do it. But that doesn't make it right.


    It may seem a bit and I hope nobody's offended by it. But it is the heart of the issue--you know, in Georgia, they shooed illegal immigrants off the farms, and now nobody is doing the work. They either can't hack the work, or they aren't willing to do it. Don't try to tell me that there is something most Americans wouldn't do for the right price--and farm work isn't even morally objectionable! They just said "I could go out and break my back again for another $50 for the day. All I want to do is sleep, the work is exhausting. I got paid for 2 weeks, now I have $600, I'd lose $50 of it to not go to work today". So they don't go--it isn't worth it. Get them paid so that they go out and buy a home, and a car, and start a family...they aren't about to let that go for the luxury of a day's rest.

  8. #28
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    Eamon, what a wonderful, even-handed thought out post, imho.

    Amazing how this situation effects so many directly or indirectly...

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


    Dave, I would think the right person is out there.
    Perhaps as your business continues to grow, even someone you could mentor and take on as an apprentice.

    Best of luck!

  9. #29
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    "And as far as illegal immigrants working hard--you bet! If you walked 1200 miles through Mexico/Central America, got raped, robbed, and beaten a few times, thrown off the roof of a train, left to die of thirst in the desert by a coyote, snuck past a few dozen varieties of armed law enforcement, faced drug cartels and murdering thugs, and lived a double life in a foreign land to feed your family in Guatemala--yeah, you're probably a go-getter. "

    Eamon, you are right about that, especially the Guatemalans. I lived in the Stuart, FL region for a long time, and knew and saw many of them. They were the hardest working people I have ever seen. Many who had managed to get a green card came to me for tax returns, and always seemed to be honest. One man came in barefooted wearing shorts and a t-shirt. He had a business and needed a Schedule C, so had to have help. He had bought three used up school buses for $1500 each, fixed them up well enough to run, and delivered workers to the orange groves every day. He was paid by the grove people a set amount -- I think it was $2 -- a head a day for workers delivered. He declared over $100,000 and paid his taxes. And I actually believe he declared all his income.

    Those are some good folks.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Johnny.B.Good's Avatar
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    Nice post Eamon.

    It is a complicated issue, and like most complicated issues, there are no easy answers.

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